Calcium powder

[skinkee]

But why put in all those additives when some of your average grocery store foods will provide the calcium?

True. I think it's more a thing that people don't trust their skills - "what if he doesn't get enough" -stuff. OR plain laziness But sure, calcium you can get from eg. egg shells, doesn't cost but the trouble if you eat eggs yourself.

BTW, I had mixed supplement to my skink's food, and put it in the microwave - it gave a spark! Is there so much iron or something that led to a spark? It gave me a bit of a scare... The food smelled burned although it was in the microwave like 3 seconds (of course didn't feed it to my guy...)

[Leigh]

Thats the trouble with additives skinkee, they come in a raw state, its far better to supply it in food, I see it like eating crisps with a multi vitamin tablet. I drink a pint of milk a day so I dont have to calci-dust my ice cream haa haaa

[AneesasMuse]

Same with us, Leigh... we do the whole foods route so we don't have to down a handful of vitamins on a daily basis.

skinkee, the same thing happened to me once... I was preparing my female Cresteds' fruit puree and I boosted it with supps, popped it in the nuker for a few seconds to take the chill off and sparks started flying I still boost their particular stash when it's the season for them, but I do it AFTER I nuke

[KyleWeiss]

Yep, and the reptiles here don't get as much sunlight as in Australia or some parts of the US so that is why D3, calcium and UV-lighting in the tank are a good way to go - and the excess calcium (probably also at least some vitamins/minerals) gets out from under the tail

But why put in all those additives when some of your average grocery store foods will provide the calcium?

I agree with Kyle that it's like an evil pet store or "reptile rumor" that's been ingrained in everyone that YOU MUST SUPPLEMENT. You know why I think? Because those same people advise a diet of crickets and meal worms!

Of course they advise a diet of crickets and worms, that way they keep selling both!

Now if only McDonald's sponsored gyms along side their restaurants...

It just sucks that pet keeping is such a huge business and there's such ignorant practices within it.

KW

[NomadOfTheHills]

The way I see it, Kyle and Zach, you guys are not reptile people.

You guys are BTS people, and very knowledgeable in this subject matter, more so than most people.

However, most reptiles do require supplementation, as they are not lucky enough to be omnivorous like BTS. As so, many people come into BTS with the supplementation mentality.

The way I see it, its better safe than sorry. How often do you hear of a reptile with TOO much calcium? Almost never. To much d3? Every so often. Nutritional MBD? All the time.

[MartinsPerson]

Of course they advise a diet of crickets and worms, that way they keep selling both!

Now if only McDonald's sponsored gyms along side their restaurants...

It just sucks that pet keeping is such a huge business and there's such ignorant practices within it.

KW

I just want to point out that not ALL pet store employees suck. Personally I am working for Petco right now (because I need the paycheck and the discount is nice). I feel like a know a fair amount about reptiles and I steer customers in the right direction. If I don't know the answer, I ask. There is A LOT of misinformation out there, and it gets propogated because people don't know any better. I just want to dispell the evil pet store employee theory. Not all of us are out to hurt pets. I feel like I do a lot of good in my position because I encounter many people who otherwise wouldn't know any better than to feed just crickets (that are 72+ hours old and haven't been gut loaded) and dust with calcium.

[LittleFoot]

Of course they advise a diet of crickets and worms, that way they keep selling both!

Now if only McDonald's sponsored gyms along side their restaurants...

It just sucks that pet keeping is such a huge business and there's such ignorant practices within it.

KW

I just want to point out that not ALL pet store employees suck. Personally I am working for Petco right now (because I need the paycheck and the discount is nice). I feel like a know a fair amount about reptiles and I steer customers in the right direction. If I don't know the answer, I ask. There is A LOT of misinformation out there, and it gets propogated because people don't know any better. I just want to dispell the evil pet store employee theory. Not all of us are out to hurt pets. I feel like I do a lot of good in my position because I encounter many people who otherwise wouldn't know any better than to feed just crickets (that are 72+ hours old and haven't been gut loaded) and dust with calcium.

I want to second what martin just said. Most people who work in a pet store do so because they love animals. They might not be the best informed but they do love animals. The owners on the other hand, do it for a business not for the love of the animal (in many cases, not all) I worked for PetSmart and Petco (petco for only 5 months though) and they have gotten better with offering care sheets on reptiles and small animals and birds. PetsSmart even used to have the associates take tests on various subjects to better educate them (fish, small animals, birds, reptiles, equine, dog, and cat) Unfortunatly they stopped doing that.

I worked in high school for a mall pet store that sold puppies. We were trained to say they are from small private breeders. Even though 20/20 did an expose on some of the breeders we used since they were all puppy mills. Don't let them fool you, all mall pet stores are puppy mill puppies, no responsible breeder would sell in a pet store. We would get a puppy from the breeder for $75, and then sell it for $750.

Sorry I went off on a tangent there, but I have worked in the pet retail industry for 13 years, and I have cried when we lost animals with other associates. The important thing is to educate when there is misinformation given, because for the most part people are willing to learn to improve the animals living conditions. Just my two cents.

[Leigh]

Some petshop employees are like GP doctors"GENERAL PRACTITIONER"they know a bit about a lot of subjects, but aren't consultants, when they offer advice they think is correct, the poor misguided customer takes that info as gospel and cant/wont be swayed by any info offered by mear mortals, so to speak.The "they work in the trade, what do you know" attitude is hard to change in a lot of people minds.

[KyleWeiss]

Can I remind everyone I've worked with animals of all kinds, all of my life, and have managed pet stores?

You're not telling me anything I don't know. There is a tendancy to perpetuate practices that make reliance on the store essential. It's called business. It's not about the animals, it's about profits. Period. I never said anyone that works in a pet store is a satanist, so tangent all you want, go back and read what I stated. I think you all made your own feathers ruffled (so to speak), not me...

To say directly to John (Nomad), yeah, we're BTS people, but the same can go for just about any animal. Supplementing isn't NECESSARY. If your pet store sold things like silk worms, cockroaches and all the other foods that strictly insectivore-type reptiles ate, and something other than cancer-ridden mice and rats for larger carnivores, supplementing wouldn't be needed! Mealworms, mice and crickets are cheap, breed readily, ship well, and they don't give, I just have to say it, a rat's arse, what the nutritional value is. Otherwise you'd have choices.

Do you know how many people I know that keep huge snakes, iguanas and even birds that grow their own food or buy it elsewhere? Guess what? They don't supplement! They don't need to! As an example, a buddy of mine named Mike has a 16 year old green iguana that's GREEN. And huge! Not yellow or orange. He actually grows his own food. No supplements. They're a band-aid for poor feeding.

KW

[Zach]

Everything I write about pet store employees comes from my own experiences...there are a few far in between though like Jen -- if Jen worked at the Petco here when that BTS was there for a year and died, I may have a very different opinion.

Or perhaps the Scamp's who had a 2 inch long Indo for $200. The food? Huge crickets running around the tank. They offered him to me for free a little bit too late. It died almost as soon as we got him. We don't have very many pet stores here, so there's not a lot of "chances" for things to happen. Funny enough, these two instances are pretty much the only BTS I've never seen here. The only other one's were the Zany Zoo pet store who had a couple Merauke who were housed together a few years back...they sold, but besides being kept together, they seemed healthy.

Even if the employees were awesome, they still sell only wild caught BTS which can really be a bummer for the buyer.

[Lucifer_Spades]

I think EVERYONE who cares about animals has had their fair share of experiences with bad petstore people. Many of us have had good experiences as well. The sad fact is that though most petstores are begun by people who genuinely care about animals, eventually it comes down to the profit margin must be kept up.
The fact is to keep those margins up they have to keep their expendatures low and their prices high, the cheapest feeders will be gotten and supplements will be recomended and sold.
Customers that don't give a rat's rump about their animals and are only interested in getting a "kewl" pet are unfourtunatly the majority of buyers because most careing people learn not to go to pet stores to buy their pets (herps or otherwise)
I got my BTS at a Petco where he was lucky enough to have caring people working there including one who has her own BTS and was the one who directed me to this site. (I do wonder what her name is and what her screen name on here would be as I haven't ever heard from her)

Good, bad, and indifferent petstores will keep doing what they do until people stop buying.

As far as supplements go I do give them occasionally as I said but in truth Quigly gets a good enough diet that they are probably not needed, I just like to make sure every trace element is accounted for so he gets a little "seasoning" on his fresh superworms or chicken everyother week or so. It's most definatly the herpers choice if they want to add supplements to a good diet. My kids get vitamins(they almost never get junk food), my cats get vitamins(in addition to a staple of Science Diet), why not my lizard. Everything in moderation though and suppliments are not an excuse to give a less than sutible diet, all that does is invite trouble.

Judging by the length of this rant, I think I'm in a typing mood so I go to write on my stories, good night all.

[KyleWeiss]

There's just a big difference between the pet store employee and the pet store as a business. The ideal pet store clerk in the opinion of the company, is a part-time, non-overtime low-paid employee with maxiumum knowledge and effort for the customer with minimal outside supervision or training. Anything else simply costs money. The animals are quite the same, the food, the same, the toys and other goods, all low cost and high volume. People who are much better than this ethic and expectation either don't stay, are overqualified, aren't paid enough or burn out because of these facts. Join them or leave them is pretty much the only way to go unless it's a rare store director that goes above and beyond. Even they end up not staying around for much the same reasons.

Your best bet is to find a small-time pet retailer that does a good job and support them.

KW