Misinformation re: Blotched Bluey on site

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tiliqua
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Postby tiliqua » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:56 pm

G'day all! :hithere:

Since this thread has attracted some well-informed nigrolutea keepers and field herpers, I thought that we could tweak the Blotched species profile even further.
We can edit the section as a group to get a consensus of opinion and argue points that are contentious.
What do members think about this idea (especially Zach - as we will need you to edit it please :) ).

Here's the species profile as it stands:-

The Blotched Blue Tongued Skink — (T. nigrolutea • Quoy & Gaimard, 1824)
(Also known as the Southern blue tongued skink)
This is a blue tongue species that inhabits Australian coasts, forests, and dry plains. The Blotched is once again one of the more rare breeds in captivity. The Blotched used to be quite common with reptile hobbyists years ago, but have since relinquished in the pet trade. They are unique among blue tongues in that they consist of mainly one solid color (instead of stripes), and display 'blotches' scattered up and down their back and tail. Many "blotchies" (a popular nickname) also have very fat tails which are thick all the way down until abruptly coming to a point. They reach lengths of in and around 18 inches, usually give birth to consistently 8-10 offspring, and are completely confined to lower eastern Australia and Northern Tasmania. There are two popular named 'phases' of blotched; alpine and lowland. These phases are not diverse enough to be considered subspecies, but are usually quite distinctive. The top three photographs demonstrate the 'alpine phase', and the fifth displaying a 'lowland'. Usually, the main difference is color. The alpine's are usually characterized as being much lighter/brighter with colors such as oranges and even pinks, while the lowlands usually consist of darker shades of browns, grays, and other darker markings. The alpines also often have an overall yellow tinged shade and checkered forelegs. Sometimes the alpines are referred to as 'highlands'.

Distinguishing marks:

• No stripes—body is assorted with multitudinous irregular shaped "blotches"
• Often displays a myriad of tiny flecks on and around the face
• Highland form is capable of displaying a vibrant pink coloration
• Commonly displays a very fat tail



To get things started...

1)
"...inhabits Australian coasts, forests, and dry plains".

Could we add heathland, as I've found quite a few nigrolutea in both coastal and mountain heathland habitat?
I also think that "dry plains" is a little misleading and reckon that grasslands would be a better term to use (or should I just let this one go? :slap: ).

2)
completely confined to lower eastern Australia and Northern Tasmania.

- this should be changed to the coast and ranges of south-eastern Australia and the species distribution in Tasmania should include eastern and south-eastern regions of Tasmania; as they occur down the east coast to Hobart and even further south.

3)
...they consist of mainly one solid color (instead of stripes).
No stripes—body is assorted with multitudinous irregular shaped "blotches".

No Tiliqua sp. have stripes as such and are more correctly called bands. I know I'm being pedantic here but it's a valid point.

4)
display 'blotches' scattered up and down their back and tail.

- the blotches don't continue all the way down the tail but become bands. Quite often the blotches continue onto the base of the tail but never more than about a third of the way down in my experience.
The tail is primarily banded.


What does everyone think about these points and making these changes?


Cheers
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Postby Fatal_S » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:31 pm

I think I need some blotchies so I can make an informed decision on these changes. Send me some?
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Postby tiliqua » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:35 pm

I can send you some pics Fatal S and you can get a good idea based on that.


Usually, the main difference is color. The alpine's are usually characterized as being much lighter/brighter with colors such as oranges and even pinks, while the lowlands usually consist of darker shades of browns, grays, and other darker markings. The alpines also often have an overall yellow tinged shade and checkered forelegs. Sometimes the alpines are referred to as 'highlands'.

Distinguishing marks:

• No stripes—body is assorted with multitudinous irregular shaped "blotches"
• Often displays a myriad of tiny flecks on and around the face
• Highland form is capable of displaying a vibrant pink coloration


I also still think we need to tweak the colour and pattern descriptions:-

5) Alpine's are characteristically black in colour dorsally with cream, yellow, pink, salmon pink, orange and pale pink blotches.
Alpine's are only yellow on the sides and are quite often greenish-yellow and even bluish laterally.

6) Also, the Alpine form is characteristically peppered black not only on the limbs but also the face, especially the temporal regions (cheeks) and upper labials.
I've found this to be a distinguishing feature between the "Alpine"/highland form and the Lowland form.


I'll post some nice pics to pretty the thread up, so that it doesn't get too heavy.


Cheers
Last edited by tiliqua on Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Fatal_S » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:41 pm

I would love pictures if you do have some to send!
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Postby tiliqua » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:03 pm

Here's a typical Alpine Blotched Blue-tongue from the Blue Mountains, NSW.
It's a wild adult male that was found in sclerophyll forest.

Image
Last edited by tiliqua on Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lisa » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:13 pm

Here's another home-grown hero!
Image
Image

Is anyone else on here from around here or further west or even Sydney? Majorly massive storm about to hit!
1 Eastern, JUBBY, born January 2004
1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006
1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006
1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
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Postby Fatal_S » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:19 pm

I see what's meant by the tail turning into stripes. Lisa, I don't think there is any way I wouldn't recognize Ralphie ^.^ He's special. Tiliqua, I like the colors on that guy, especially the orange on the top of the head. Neat.
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Postby Blotch » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:38 pm

Seeing as we're showing blotchies off, here are my blotchies!

CHOPPER
Image

FRITZ
Image

VIC
Image

LILTAN
Image

LANCE
Image

LANCE (again)
Image

MINI
Image

MINI (again)
Image

MINI (Again again)
Image

The pic I had of MICRO wasn't real good lighting - so here's one of all of my blotchies in which you can see the patterns quite well!

The Whole Blotched Crew!
Image
From Left to Right: LANCE, MICRO, FRITZ, CHOPPER, MINI, LILTAN, VIC RATTLEHED

These are all lowland variety - however - i do believe chopper and Lance could be Alpine crosses - although I could be wrong.
~|=|>-

"you want what!? where!?"

2.1.0 T.S. Intermedia (Kimberleys)
1.0 T.S. Intermedia (N.T.)
6.0.3 T. Nigrolutea (VIC Lowlands)
3.1.11 T. Scincoides (VIC & NSW)
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Postby Scotts1au » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:52 pm

Nice collection

What would you call a herd of bluetongues? a blotch?

Scott
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Postby Blotch » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:30 pm

Thx Scott!

I'd call them a mess! or a bunch of beautiful idiots!
~|=|>-

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2.1.0 T.S. Intermedia (Kimberleys)
1.0 T.S. Intermedia (N.T.)
6.0.3 T. Nigrolutea (VIC Lowlands)
3.1.11 T. Scincoides (VIC & NSW)
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Postby Zach » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:17 am

Haha, I remember when we had a large thread and organized pole down for what we should call a group of BTS. It came down to a tangle of blueys or a slide of blueys.

+ 2.2 Irian Jaya (Slurpy, Nona, Sassy, Cool Moe Dee)
+ 1.1 Eastern (Eugene, Enzo)
+ 1.2 Northern (Niko, Pearl, Peach)
+ 1.0 Tanimbar Island (TQ)
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Postby Blotch » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:20 am

a tangle or slide? What the...?


Oh, I'm getting my sister to bring over her pro camera tomorrow so i can get some cool pics of the clan. Just thought yall would like to know.
~|=|>-

"you want what!? where!?"

2.1.0 T.S. Intermedia (Kimberleys)
1.0 T.S. Intermedia (N.T.)
6.0.3 T. Nigrolutea (VIC Lowlands)
3.1.11 T. Scincoides (VIC & NSW)
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Postby Zach » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:21 am

Yeah, tons of animals have a goofy name when it comes to identifying them as a group. So, we tried to come up with one for blueys.

+ 2.2 Irian Jaya (Slurpy, Nona, Sassy, Cool Moe Dee)
+ 1.1 Eastern (Eugene, Enzo)
+ 1.2 Northern (Niko, Pearl, Peach)
+ 1.0 Tanimbar Island (TQ)
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Postby Lisa » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:41 am

Tiliqua,
Do you think that the term 'Alpine' is somewhat misleading? The colour variations described as alpine, such as your pic and my Ralphie that are found here in the Blue Mts (Central Tablelands), well this is 5-6 hours drive from the Snowy Mts! Granted it does snow here very occasionally and very lightly, but it is not an alpine area. It's not till you hit the southern tablelands (Goulburn, Cooma etc) that you're getting somewhat close to alpine country in NSW and that's like 3 or more hours away.

I think they need to come up with a better descriptor for the coloured ones. Alpine is too limited, it needs to be something broader, or else you have NSW/Tas blotchies and Vic ones.
1 Eastern, JUBBY, born January 2004

1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006

1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006

1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
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Postby Blotch » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:43 am

Highland and lowland seem a better choice to me.

But in saying that, Mansfield is highland area and they have the lowland varieties there. Tassie also have the lowland variety too. So I agree that the whole naming is up the duff but eh - $h|T happens.
~|=|>-

"you want what!? where!?"

2.1.0 T.S. Intermedia (Kimberleys)
1.0 T.S. Intermedia (N.T.)
6.0.3 T. Nigrolutea (VIC Lowlands)
3.1.11 T. Scincoides (VIC & NSW)
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Postby Lisa » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:52 am

Blotch wrote:Highland and lowland seem a better choice to me.

But in saying that, Mansfield is highland area and they have the lowland varieties there. Tassie also have the lowland variety too. So I agree that the whole naming is up the duff but eh - $h|T happens.


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I go Pub now. Friday's good :lol:
1 Eastern, JUBBY, born January 2004

1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006

1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006

1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
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Postby Geoff Gates » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:55 am

Dr Ashley Edwards an authority on blotchies from University of Tasmania makes no distinction.

She (I believe Ashley is a she) says they are all T Nigrolutea. No Alpine/Lowland or whatever.
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Postby NomadOfTheHills » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:57 am

Seems more like locality specifics, like the speckling often seen on Kimberly region northerns.
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Postby Scotts1au » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:08 am

Hi all

I can honestly say that until I looked at this site I had never heard the term Alpine, or lowland blotchies. I've been around Herp people most of my 36 years, have had blotchies for many years, bred them etc you get the idea.

I figured that I was a bit ignorant :-)

Scott
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Postby Blotch » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:37 am

Not at all Scott, Personally - before I came to this site I was the same. I knew there were the 2 different "coloured" blotchies, but they were all blotchies to me.

Eh, either way - they're all T. Nigrolutea, and they're all Awesome!
~|=|>-

"you want what!? where!?"

2.1.0 T.S. Intermedia (Kimberleys)
1.0 T.S. Intermedia (N.T.)
6.0.3 T. Nigrolutea (VIC Lowlands)
3.1.11 T. Scincoides (VIC & NSW)

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