Opinions on Shingles

Fatal_S · Postby **Fatal_S** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:36 pm

There are a few adds for shingles on Kingsnake, and I'd like some opinions on the animals featured.

The first, which I am very interested in, is seen at this location:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=34&de=545181

The description says it is 600g, several year old male, with funny toes and an odd nose scale. I like the color on this guy, and I think he'd be good for breeding. If I get some positive opinions I may contact the owner. The price is $2000.

The second ad, posted by the same owner, is:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=34&de=545182

This is a 2006, 750g male for $3000. It looks nice, but doesn't have the same full-chocolate colors.

The last ad, which I believe has been talked about before, is:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=34&de=543861

This is a pair for $8500. I have my own opinions on these 2, but I'm always up for hearing what other people think.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I've sent a message requesting some top-down pictures of the first 2 skinks. I'm now waiting to see what kind of reply I get.

evil pixie · Postby **evil pixie** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:51 pm

Well, heck, if you got the money, get the pair!

Lisa · Postby **Lisa** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:51 pm

750grams and only a year old? I find that hard to believe!

I'd ask for some top down shots of both, particularly their tails, and I'd ask some experienced shingle keepers for a second opinion on the sexes. Just because two shingles are kept together and don't breed doesn't mean they are the same sex. Not saying he's wrong, but for that amount of money, and considering you want to breed them, I'd be getting a second opinion.

Fatal_S · Postby **Fatal_S** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:13 pm

Actually Lisa, his way of sexing seems to be looking into the cloaca for a 'hemipenal vein'? I've never heard of this, and as such I'm not putting much stock in it. The reason I'm posting on here is for more opinions. Thanks for the response, and I think I'll send an e-mail tomorrow requesting some top-down shots. The one I really like is the rougher, $2000 guy, as his colors are very nice ^.^ Both are nice though. I'll send the e-mail tomorrow, and see what kind of response I get. Any pictures will be posted here for some more experienced people to have a look at. I'll also PM some members who keep/breed shingles.

kris21 · Postby **kris21** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:14 pm

I like the 1st one too, the dark ones are beautiful.
Spending that kinda money thought i'd wanna go see them first before i made any payments and pick them up if possible.
If i were selling something that valueable i'd get a reptile vets certificate saying their sex. Can't expect people to by them "thinking" they are males and females. JMO.

Kris

Fatal_S · Postby **Fatal_S** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:20 pm

If I do buy these guys, a trip to NY will be in order. I'm not willing to trust most people online, at least those not on the forum. I also don't know if many vets can easily determine gender, as many 'reptile' vets don't seem to know much about herps at all. The condition of both seem alright to me in those pictures, so I'll ask for more tomorrow, and see what happens.

Pipa · Postby **Pipa** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:06 pm

AB&MB · Postby **AB&MB** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:20 pm

come to my place mate, i stopped counting at 200 the other day and thats in a 2 and a half our trip (one way)to do shopping.
cheers Matt

Postby **Zach** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:31 pm

Fatal_S wrote:Actually Lisa, his way of sexing seems to be looking into the cloaca for a 'hemipenal vein'? I've never heard of this, and as such I'm not putting much stock in it. The reason I'm posting on here is for more opinions. Thanks for the response, and I think I'll send an e-mail tomorrow requesting some top-down shots. The one I really like is the rougher, $2000 guy, as his colors are very nice ^.^ Both are nice though. I'll send the e-mail tomorrow, and see what kind of response I get. Any pictures will be posted here for some more experienced people to have a look at. I'll also PM some members who keep/breed shingles.

Johan knows a bit about this; I'll PM and see if he'll respond.

Postby **Zach** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:32 pm

Pipa wrote:The one year old animal is much too heavy. If the ownwer did not take extreme care in it's diet it is probably ill. My babies need 3 to 4 years to reach this size.
In fact you can tell the gender if you take a look under the tail. There is a visible vein in male that support the hemipenis. I will show you some pics later. (using another computer).
Check here for more info: http://trachydosaurus.de/bsexing.html

I would love to see some of those pictures, Rolf...

DeadEye · Postby **DeadEye** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:19 am

Cant be 1 year Fatal_S ...gee thats preety heavy ...Yep aspera from eastern states . If it were me id say the seond is a young male ...Very short stuby nose short chunky face , most probable a male and closer for 2 year old and has best condition and scales ,eyes ...Popeye and Olive were born 16/3 /07 He eats anything every day ..not even close to 600g . getting confused myself LOL

Ive got to go pick up some up from an old persons hospital ,but ill get back to you with pics and weights , so you can compare

Iam nearly 600g and all my ticks are gone woot !!

Yep he is 3 and isnt 600g ...Here popeye a year old in march 16th a litle smaller

Thats not hurting him he only had it plopped on his jaw ..I tried it on my lip , my little boy plays with him thats about 6 weeks ago Fatal_S :drool:

I will say this but its not until you have him in your hands an hour and really cast an eye over them pics can look different . Yes even the trained eye can miss stuff goodluck anyway ..My wife has the book ...See if we can show you 1 on scales at 600 g cya Mate

Geoff Gates · Postby **Geoff Gates** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:22 am

I would not get them no matter how nice they look.

You can do much more with your life with that amount of money than buying those stumpies.

DeadEye · Postby **DeadEye** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:42 am

Your not wrong geoff .

!!!

Here Fatal look how big 737 grams is a massive shingle Mate !!! about 8 years old . And popeye and olive,s weight not fair there 80$ here 230$ for westerns rippoff IMO.

She is the full lenght of my arm ...Ive weighed up some for you sorry bout the light 4:30 pm ... :roll:

She has lost an inch of her tail as well

Popeye and olive 7 months old today ..tiny weights 378g shes heavier than him.

Well i have to agree with Geoff

DeadEye · Postby **DeadEye** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:53 am

Something else thats weired all the adult males have been froffing up bubles in there mouth over olive ..Ive had to move her out ..for the last few weeks ...But she has a longer tail..than her brother :roll:

rugosa girls are harder to sex -- Might be my eye sight ehehe

Has to change when there adults but . Has to :wink:

Popeye top Olive bottom pic .

She has grown faster might be a big girl :shock:

Leigh · Postby **Leigh** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:57 am

They're great shingle shots mate,Olives growing into a proper little tank,is she sending out the sex me up scents already? isnt it a year or so too early for that?

Pipa · Postby **Pipa** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:38 am

Fatal_S · Postby **Fatal_S** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:17 am

Wow, that vein would make life a lot easier in the BTS world. Is it found only in shingles?

I definately agree that the second skink is too heavy to be 1, which makes me kindof suspicious about the ads as a whole. I'm still waiting for an e-mail from Larry with some top-down pictures. I wonder what kind of a reply I'll get...

Geoff, the $8000 I have was left to me by my Great Aunt to do with what I wish. Therefor nearly all the money will be put into my reptiles, with some going for flying hours. Not saying I'll be getting any of these guys, but the money is there for whenever I want to spend it.

I'll be back later to respond more, but I must jet, for I have a new job interview today.

Postby **Richard.C** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:25 am

cripes pipa,im not game to lift the stumpys tails that far,i can tell by body shape and head size so dont resort to that,but very interesting,and also theres no way that stumpy is a year old,its way to solid,also alot to pay for them,but i guess there not common over there,thats quite an investment though,and there great lizards to keep,if kept right,perhaps u could haggle for a cheaper price,i believe they have been for sale for a while,also theres a high possability they were smuggled,there descriptions dont add up

SailleSkinklover · Postby **SailleSkinklover** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:31 am

Wow, Fatal, you are one determined person!
I could probably afford 2,000 for a Shingle right now, but I would rather get the space and set up first and get through a winter at our new place. So probably not until next year for me, realistically!

(unless I can find a significantly cheaper Stumpie!)

Thank Gods for you Aussie Shingle-Stumpie experts, as I am learning a ton from you guys as well! Thank you soooo much for the info, I would never have known about the hemipenal vein either! Keep it coming, any and all information and experience is incredibly appreciated!

Hey, do you guys think a Shingle would be OK hanging out with a male Merauke (NOT housed together, but allowed to roam a large pit or open Bluey-space together? It appears that Shingles are very tolerant and laid back from many of the pics and posts...
Saille

Pipa · Postby **Pipa** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:14 am