1 Beak Baby Coming Right Up.

[Bird_Brain]

Here is my little porker. I cant get enough of his head! He is also the easiest to get a tongue shot.

[LittleFoot]

I love his colors and stripes... he is such a striking guy. nice tongue shots too.

[Tattoo]

The second shot looks like a . You sure do luck out in the used skink department Brad. You have some real winners.

[KyleWeiss]

Classic stout IJ head which I love.

KW

[aggiegirl]

Love that head. Don't get me wrong, I love my Northerns but those IJ heads are amazing! Keep the pix coming!

[Zach]

That first shot really shows it....

[Tigergenesis]

Boy am I out of the loop. Brad I didn't realize that your bluey clan had grown. Who are the this cutie pies parents?

[Funda]

His head!
Now i know what you mean!!

Beautiful skink otherwise



f.C

[Zach]

Boy am I out of the loop. Brad I didn't realize that your bluey clan had grown. Who are the this cutie pies parents?

It's only Phoebe's brother!!

[Bird_Brain]

Boy am I out of the loop. Brad I didn't realize that your bluey clan had grown. Who are the this cutie pies parents?

It's only Phoebe's brother!!

Haha. He is an '07 Slurpy/Sassy baby. Russman needed to rehome him as well as Tuck. So I jumped on it. After rehoming Nelson this past summer, Tuck and Tybo were the first blueys I got this year.

I wish I could get Nelson back

[Fatal_S]

I love the cute little beak baby head, but then all of Tybo is cute ^.^

However, this has given me some questions, so I'll post them here. In another thread Zach mentioned that Slurp/Sass were perfect for making these beak-baby heads, wide and short. Now it looks adorable obviously, but what are the chances that by breeding this trait, we could be causing some serious damage?

Take for example the German Shepherd. They were bred for a long time to have a smaller head. Now we've realized that this has been causing pressure on the brain of these dogs, giving them horrible headaches and making them aggressive and generally making their lives miserable.

Now this would be the same if we bred to alter any part of the body where vital organs are without changing the rest of the animal as well. Breeding an animal to be smaller overall wont cause the damage breeding an animal to keep it's size but now with a smaller ribcage.

Again with dogs, the dashund breed kept being bred for shorter legs and longer body, past the point where it could physically work. Now we have many dashunds who's backs bend with age, or snap the instant they get overweight.

I'm kindof worried about this happening with this beak-baby look. It's adorable, and people are going to want it more and more, and keep breeding for it. What happens if we go to far before we realize it? If anyone can comment and maybe help me dispel these fears it would be great. I don't want to hurt these little guys just to make them look cuter. Zach, if you read this, I would love your input, as you bred this, and have therefor seen more than likely anyone else.

[Zach]

German shepherds have been bred (and inbred) over hundreds and thousands of years....I don't think we're to that extent yet with the IJ's.
But I didn't "breed" for this or do it on purpose...it just happens because Sassy's head is so small (and short-faced)! I don't plan to "breed the trait out", and I doubt anyone will breed specifically trying to get little heads....there's more important things that need to happen like more Kei's!

Having a head as small as Sassy's is not entirely common either -- (I don't think...)

[Lisa]

I love the cute little beak baby head, but then all of Tybo is cute ^.^

However, this has given me some questions, so I'll post them here. In another thread Zach mentioned that Slurp/Sass were perfect for making these beak-baby heads, wide and short. Now it looks adorable obviously, but what are the chances that by breeding this trait, we could be causing some serious damage?

Some more food for thought on this peculiar head shape. A couple of months after I got Ralphie I took him to the vet for a checkup because I had lost an alpine at three months old for no apparent reason, so I wanted to make sure things were travelling well with that Ralph-Star.

The vet pointed out that Ralphie had a very short stocky head and quizzed me on diet, light, uv, setup, everything basically because he said it can be a development failure, or a symptom of poor development. For reasons that I won't go into here, Ralphie's diet was not the best at that point and so I changed it.

You can see from these photos how when he was born he had a pointy head, then how it was looking a little short when about 3 months when he went to the vet, and now when it looks relatively normal.

Baby, nice and pointy


Approx 3 months old, short and stocky


Now, relatively pointy



Two things: Blotches do seem to have stockier heads than some other species (at least it appears that way in captivity), and I am only repeating advice given to me by a well respected herp vet.

I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with the beaky's, but whenever I've seen one since that vet trip a couple of years ago it has stuck in my mind.

Sorry, Brad, for going OT.

[Bird_Brain]

Lisa, that is very interesting. If it wasnt that Slurpy/Sassy babies are kinda "known" for having these heads, then I would be more worried. Also, could it be like other animals were they go through weird growth spurts? Such as the leggy, middle school boy. Or a dog that needs time to grow into its ears?

I can see where husbandry can stunt the growth, but why would it just stunt the heads growth? Im not questioning the information you posted. I am just curious as this is the first time I had heard husbandry skills and head size can go hand in hand.

Dont worry about going OT. This is very interesting stuff.

[Fatal_S]

Gawd, Ralphie was such an adorable baby! I mean he's cute now, but awww! And sleepy Santos too ^.^ I think those pictures truly show how much of a huge difference a good diet makes. Did the vet tell you anything about what the stocky head could be doing to Ralph? I truly don't think Sassy's head or any of the beak-babies heads would be doing damage to them at this point, I was just thinking to possibly reprocussions if it continued to be bred out, making them more beaky.

[Lisa]

Lisa, that is very interesting. If it wasnt that Slurpy/Sassy babies are kinda "known" for having these heads, then I would be more worried. Also, could it be like other animals were they go through weird growth spurts? Such as the leggy, middle school boy. Or a dog that needs time to grow into its ears?

I can see where husbandry can stunt the growth, but why would it just stunt the heads growth? Im not questioning the information you posted. I am just curious as this is the first time I had heard husbandry skills and head size can go hand in hand.

Dont worry about going OT. This is very interesting stuff.

Gawd, Ralphie was such an adorable baby! I mean he's cute now, but awww! And sleepy Santos too ^.^ I think those pictures truly show how much of a huge difference a good diet makes. Did the vet tell you anything about what the stocky head could be doing to Ralph? I truly don't think Sassy's head or any of the beak-babies heads would be doing damage to them at this point, I was just thinking to possibly reprocussions if it continued to be bred out, making them more beaky.

I agree, it could well be like how other animals develop at different stages, although gangly or pudgy school kids and dogs that are all legs and ears is one thing, kids with mishapen heads are less common!

My understanding of what my vet was telling me, was that while the fact that his head shape was stocky, that in itself was not an issue or a problem that was a direct threat to his well-being, but could be a symptom of poor diet at that early developmental stage in his life. (One of the reasons why I harp on about a healthy diet being so important in their early years). And that that symptom that was showing as a stocky head, that is while having a stocky head wouldn't kill him, may well be an indication of an internal problem that may only show up when it's too late (I have such regret and guilt over my first alpine after that visit with Ralphie). Internal problems such as diseased liver or kidney failure and stomach/intestinal problems as well as hormonal imbalances from processing the wrong foods.

I didn't ask him if problems related to poor diet may manifest themselves in other physical ways such as ... I don't know, short legs or short bodies etc. The fact that it was so clear in his head shape (once it was pointed out to me that is. Not that I couldn't see it, it's that I didn't know it was a problem) was enough. I'll have to ask next time, we're due for our next worming & general checkup soon.

I cannot say absolutely that the vet's diagnosis and me changing his diet made the difference, but I think it's pretty clear that where Ralphie was tending to be a little beaky, he does not appear to be now.

In regards to yours and Zach's and their siblings, I do believe it may well be a trait that is being passed from the parent. But whether that parent's stocky head was due to developmental issue, who knows? And whether it will be detrimental, again who knows? Personally, I doubt it. In all other respects they appear healthy (if a little chunky Has anyone else noticed that, that the beaky's seem a little more on the chunky side? They seem to be neckless). Perhaps any developmental problem long ago in the line was not severe enough to kill or was incidentally corrected sufficiently that not only did the animal survived but the trait did as well. Dunno. I'm certainly no scientician, and am prone to over analysing things.

In my head I keep hearing the word 'flawed' or 'abnormal' when thinking of the beaky's, but I don't think that's right, regardless of whether it's a trait passed on from the parent. I think though, that any young bluetongue who appears physically a little different from the norm, that people should have in the back of their mind that it may be a developmental thing. Panic buttons don't need to be pressed, but wild animals in general tend to appear as clones of eachother more so than either humans or domesticated pets. Even a dog or a cat breed that has a different coat colour will essentially be the same shape as others of its breed. Hmm, this is all starting to sound a bit Ayrian! And in regards to humans, we pluck, shave, dye, pierce, diet and tan ourselves to look nothing like everyone else (oh the irony!) but essentially our head shapes, height, two legs, two arms etc have a range to determine normal.

I'll finish up by saying that I do believe that your little cutie there has probably picked up a trait from his Mum (and who wouldn't want to take after her?!). I do believe that healthy diet is vital in their first year or two. I do believe that the advice and diet change recommended by my vet has meant that where Ralphie was developing a short, stocky head it appears to have been arrested.

If someone were to post pics of a baby that was from anyone else but Sassy or another known older but healthy bluey then I'd probably question the diet. As you can see from Ralph's photos, it is easy to spot if you know what to look for.

[Lisa]

Just for reference, this is my first alpine, who died at three months old. He seemed fine in the morning and every day before that. Great eater, active, alert. Said good morning to him one Thursday and came home to find him like he'd done a poo and something didn't quite go right. He was just lying where he'd did it. Took him out, tried a bath, put him under some heat but he died within half an hour. It seems like something just went wrong inside him. There was no change to diet, husbandry, heating, light, nothing differed.

To be fair, since he didn't grow up to be old, and Ralphie is only two himself, this could all be coincidence. But these pictures seem to tell the same story of a sharp, pointy head as a baby and gradually getting stumpier. Ralphie's seems to have been reversed with diet.

As a baby (literally, just a few days old)


One month old, still long and pointy


Two months old, getting squashier and cheeks a bit bulgy


Last pic I ever took of him. 3 months old, a neckless beaky.


This pains me some to post all this and is partly why I have never commented on beaky's before this. I am still racked with guilt and ashamed because over time I have come to believe it was something I could have prevented I will never know, but I think it just the same.

At the same time though, I do believe somewhere along Sassy's previous lineage a baby developed to full growth despite a poor diet and that that trait is now being passed on. Like a big nose or ears in people perhaps.

But that someone with an otherwise long and pointed headed baby that sees signs of the head getting squashier, perhaps husbandry needs to be looked at.

Inconsequential in your instance though, Brad. I believe you take excellent care of your animals, and it shows in the pics

[Hijinks]

Could you share exactly changes in diet what your vet recommended? Looking through old posts, there seem to be a lot of differences of opinion regarding baby diet. I noticed you omitted that information, and I understand why you wouldn't want to throw your hat in the ring too. But I am interested to know because you have picture proof of a correlation between the diet you were feeding and a potential problem.

[Lisa]

Could you share exactly changes in diet what your vet recommended? Looking through old posts, there seem to be a lot of differences of opinion regarding baby diet. I noticed you omitted that information, and I understand why you wouldn't want to throw your hat in the ring too. But I am interested to know because you have picture proof of a correlation between the diet you were feeding and a potential problem.

I think the caresheet food charts on here are very detailed and spot on if you want a good diet for your bluey. I think there's no real harm in providing more cat or dog food than ratio to veggies in their first year, but you do run the risk of having a picky, veggie hating adult.

I also think variety is a good thing, and most things in moderation should be ok, with the exception of known toxic foods which are listed on the food charts as well.

Steering clear of 'human' food like processed meats, junk food, dairy etc in their first year or so is important, having said that mine don't mind the very occasional lick of an ice cream or a piece of ham off my pizza now as adults.

And as I have been banging on recently, over feeding in the first years of life should be avoided. Fat is bad, m'kay

[Leigh]

The beak babies always remind me of something thats been chasing parked cars(and catching them)