Update "firebelly" ( pr. patternless)

[bruno]

Some newyear news .

It`s me who bought the previos Patternless "family".

Most of the members on this site, know they are not pure Intermedia,

So don`t want to argue abouth that. Most likly they are Intemedia/ IJ.

mixes/hybrid. But still very nice looking animals.

Know that the 2 females are Intermedia, the male is mabye an allmost

Leucistic IJ, have no proof for that, only been told so.

Yes I`m going to breed them. It demands great respect to breed

mixed/hybrid. But I have to see, how the genes work in thoes animals.

As you may know now, i like morfs, like commen animals.

If there had been no morfs in the litter, i would never have bought

them.

I still do breed other pure species of bts, but this project, will be

me largest in the comming years.

Now enjoy pics of the hole litter from 2007. I dident breed them.

[Tattoo]

I agree ... they may be a mish-mosh in the purity department but beautiful to behold none the less. That last one is very interesting. What the heck?

[Shadowfax]

They are pretty little things. I love the first one, he has something extra sweet looking about him and love his colours.

[Drew]

still good looking!

[Funda]

Love those light colours!

f.C

[shingleback aus]

nice skinks great color

[Bird_Brain]

Amazing! I also like the First one, but all of them are beautiful as well.

[Jelot92707]

wow i really like them.Good luck with breeding them!

[Zach]

Great pictures, and they are very nice looking and indeed unique. I completely disagree with breeding them of course, but you have stated your case.

What is firebelly? Please don't bring the insane naming game into the world of BTS! The last thing we want is "Chris red sizzle siamese blue ice blueys" like the leo geckos and bearded dragons. It's nuts and ridiculous. Please take no offense -- I have stated my opinions which is nothing new to members who have been here a long time.

[NomadOfTheHills]

Humans by nature are classifiers. How else would we keep track of selective breeding if not by naming them? What about caramel northerns and sunset northerns? Is it much better to say "Andrew's really orange line?"

[Zach]

We've talked about this a hundred times on this forum before, Nomad. Have you missed every conversation? I thought you didn't like the crazy names for beardie and leo gecko morphs....somebody breeds a reptile with a new color, and BAM, a new crazy name to call their own. Nothing is natural anymore....just crazy looking animals often named after the people who bred the trait out...big differences with Andrew's animals, he agrees with me on this. His are Northerns. Named to simply distinguish from classic northerns. These are hybrids. Let the naming games begin! Ugh!

[NomadOfTheHills]

I agree, for hybrids. And yes, we have talked about it a million times haha. What is the difference with Andrew's animals? While some traits are just a simple recessive or dominant trait, many are skillfully crafted by selective breeding and take years to develop.

[Bird_Brain]

I actually agree with Nomad. I dont see the difference between calling a bluey a caramel or a sunset than calling a leopard gecko a tangerine (I think that is a morph )

[evil pixie]

What beautiful and unique looking blueys you have!

[NomadOfTheHills]

Tangerine ^



Normal ^

So that tangerine, which took years of selecting the most orange leos, with the least black etc, deserves no recognition? For every morph produced, that is one less taken out of the wild. When was the last time you saw a WC leopard gecko?

Also, Zach, I am just expressing my opinion. It seems that oftentimes forums will homogenize in their ideas, and I feel that leads to no new knowledge learned about a species.

[LittleFoot]

I agree with zach....it's like people saying you need to save white tigers....there are no white tigers in the wild since they CANNOT survive in the wild...the white tigers is a mutant gene that has been exploited by people to get more white tigers.

This is from the tuscon herp show...in my opinion it is ridiculous.

[NomadOfTheHills]

Well, white tigers are different. First they are hybrid between Siberian and Bengal, second, I don't think anyone wants to save them. In addition, they are often born with deformities, are are much less likely to grow to be an adult. Zoos most often use them to bring in people, who just like seeing the pretty tigers.

[LittleFoot]

Well, white tigers are different. First they are hybrid between Siberian and Bengal, second, I don't think anyone wants to save them. In addition, they are often born with deformities, are are much less likely to grow to be an adult. Zoos most often use them to bring in people, who just like seeing the pretty tigers.

I was in Vegas and saw a siegfried and roy show (this is about 10 years ago) They spoke passionatly about how we need to preserve and save the white tigers since they are near extinction in the wild. After Roy was injured he did a 20/20 special and both of them again talked about the need to save the endangered white tiger. White tigers are born in the wild, but due to their lack of camoflauge they do not survive, they basically starve to death since they cannot hunt as well since their prey sees them coming. Sorry for going on a tangent.

[NomadOfTheHills]

Well, that just goes to show how dumb people are.

[Zach]

Tangerine ^



Normal ^

So that tangerine, which took years of selecting the most orange leos, with the least black etc, deserves no recognition? For every morph produced, that is one less taken out of the wild. When was the last time you saw a WC leopard gecko?

Also, Zach, I am just expressing my opinion. It seems that oftentimes forums will homogenize in their ideas, and I feel that leads to no new knowledge learned about a species.

No worries at all, dude!

But no, I don't like the tangerines one bit and don't think they deserve special recognition per se -- these animals get inbred so badly and are the opposite of anything that I consider natural...it's not a big deal; I just hate the thought of it happening to blue tongues. So many people use it as a ridiculous money making tool, often making animals sound WAY more valuable than they are. Breed a few colors, slap on a fire/ice/tornado name and charge a million bucks. All the while it being nothing that you would see in the wild which is something I personally really appreciate.

That picture Littlefoot posted is the perfect example of exactly what I DON'T want to see happen to our BTS (personal opinion! )

Reptileking -- Andrew's aren't morphs....he acquired two very orange Northerns, and he bred their babies. It isn't his intention to call them morphs or assign fancy names, but how do you tell the difference when you're telling someone about the orange vs. the classic? Exact same thing with carmels. It isn't a morph, it's just a different looking Northern; not all are the same and if you breed all of them and are selling them, they need to be distinguished. His animals are still animals you could find in the wild (I think) they aren't inbred to kingdom come -- he's just lucky enough to have a pair who are more orange than normal. Just like I have Sunny who is extremely yellow; his parents are wild caught and it's a completely natural trait; it wasn't invented and carefully crafted, named a ridiculous name and sold for mega bucks. I hope that makes sense. Again, it's like my two female Northerns. I call the babies Peach Northerns and Pearl Northerns. This is so I can tell them apart when talking about the babies with people.

Everyone has their opinions and I'm glad! Sorry Bruno to do this to your thread...it's almost inevitable as it's a very touchy subject (hybrids AND naming "morphs" in one thread, yikes! )