EMERGENCY---How toxic is Ortho fire ant killer??????????????

[aggiegirl]

I had Latte' outside and he wandered into a fire ant hill that I put Ortho Orthene Fire Ant Killer powder into yesterday. I have called the emergency vet (who knows precious little about lizards) and the Ortho hotline (which is conveniently closed on Sundays.) I can't find anything on their site and the label isn't very helpful either. Active ingredient is acephate (50%.) I don't know if he even ingested any but he eats everything and I am freaking out. Suggestions please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zach]

I have no idea!

He walked INTO the hill or just walked up on top? By now, the powder is probably dissolved I would think...?

[brunetteoctober]

try rinsing and soaking him and get him to drink lots of water. if he ingested anything it will help dilute it.

[Scotts1au]

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Che ... Id=PC34806

might help.

Seems to be only mildy toxic at least to amphibians, couldn't find anything on reptiles. I wouldn't think it is a problem unless injested directly, particularly as reptile skin is relatively impervious.

Scott

[aggiegirl]

I have called almost everyone in town but no one seems to know. I washed him off when I brought him in. The fire ants took most of it into the mound but he eats EVERYTHING and that is why I'm worried. It is the powder and there were only small amounts of it left. He wasn't there for very long before I noticed. I'm calming down a bit but I would appreciate any advice/info that you might have.
kathy

[aggiegirl]

Thank you all so much for the help. Scottsau, that site is good b/c it tells timeframes, etc. I didn't even know what symptoms to look for. I spoke with Zack via the phone too. (Poor Zach is probably regretting selling me a skink! At least he is a jewel about it!!!!)
I will keep checking and I will keep you updated. That little imp is going to get a leash one of these days. I will be going to Lowes to get that bacteria that is specific for killing fire ants tomorrow. I rarely use chemicals of any sort and this is why. Fireants, however, are dangerous in their own rights. I'll take recommendations for killing these without endangering my pets/kids as well....

[Usersafe]

I had Latte' outside and he wandered into a fire ant hill that I put Ortho Orthene Fire Ant Killer powder into yesterday. I have called the emergency vet (who knows precious little about lizards) and the Ortho hotline (which is conveniently closed on Sundays.) I can't find anything on their site and the label isn't very helpful either. Active ingredient is acephate (50%.) I don't know if he even ingested any but he eats everything and I am freaking out. Suggestions please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott answered your question about the ingredient in the poison you used. I use the same website frequently. I have a great resource regarding fire ants. Please find just a portion of it excerpted below. The author is the inventor of the enzyme cleaner we sell on our website. I can attest it works great at removing insects.

Intelligent Pest Management® Alternative Mound Treatments

Treating individual fire ant mounds is time consuming, but it is generally the most effective method of control. It takes from a few hours to a few weeks to “kill” the mound, depending on the product used. Individual mound treatment is usually most effective in the spring. The key is to locate and treat all the mounds in the area to be protected, not always a simple task. If many young mounds are missed, reinfestation of the area can take place in less than a year. The following discussions describe different ways to treat individual mounds.

Aspartame - Sprinkle aspartame (Equal® or Nutrasweet®) on the fire ant mounds and then mist the aspartame with water and watch the action.

Fire Ant Mound Drench. Take 3 gallons of water and add 3 oz. - 4 oz. of Safe Solutions, Inc. Enzyme Cleaner with Peppermint and 3 - 4 tablespoons food-grade DE and gently flood the mound and surrounding area (or a 3-gallon mix of 1/3 orange juice and 2/3’s water and a dash of dish soap). Break open the top of the fire ant mound and pour 3 gallons of the diluted enzyme/orange juice dilution directly into the galleries. It has been observed that when a man urinates on the mounds, the ants die, so try urine or a mix of turpentine or pine oil and ammonia in water. Other drenches include diluted peppermint soap at a rate of 1 pint per 3 gallons of water. Open the top of the mound; then wet the top of the mound, then soak an area around the base of the mound and pour the remaining drench on the top of the mound from a height of at least 3 feet to help penetrate the entire mound. Mound drenches are most effective after rains when the ground is wet and the ants have moved up into the drier soil in the mound. During excessively dry weather, effectiveness of the treatment may be enhanced if you soak the soil around the mound with plain water or diluted enzyme cleaners before you flood the mound with 3 gallons of diluted Safe Solutions enzyme cleaner or orange juice, or steam.

A simple way to flood a lot of mounds in your yard is to use a hose end sprayer and fill the container with Safe Solutions Enzyme Cleaner with Peppermint and a few ounces of food-grade DE and then simply soak the mound and surrounding area, or you can use a 2½-gal. stainless steel fie extinguisher with 1½ gal. water, 4 - 5 oz. Safe Solutions Enzyme Cleaner with Peppermint and 110# pressure and “pressure bore” right into the nest. Be sure your canister is rated for this much air pressure.

Coke. Take two (2) 2-liter bottles of Coca-Cola and pour directly into (a hole) in each mound.

Carbon Dioxide (CO2). Insert several pounds of dry ice or inject the dense gas which is one and a half times heavier than air (use a 20# cylinder of CO2 with 12 feet of hose and a 3’ - 4’ pipe attached) into the fire ant mound and it moves downward killing all worker ants, larvae and the queen. There is no odor or warning as the CO2 gas silently replaces the air in the entire chamber and any connecting tunnels or chambers or mounds. CO2 is not harmful to plants or lawns and after killing the fire ants in the mound, CO2 returns harmlessly back into the air. Fire ants do not like frozen ground.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) created by burning (6 - charcoal briquettes will also control fire ants if you throw them into a hole in the mound with a 2’+ wall (e.g., half of a barrel, open on both ends) around the mound/hole.
Propane and other heavier than air gases will also work, but are certainly not as safe.

War! Take 2 shovels, dust the handles, your shoes, socks and trouser bottoms with talcum powder; get a shovel full of each mound; then transfer each shoveful to the other mound and see if the ants fight it out among themselves. This is becoming less and less effective.

[aggiegirl]

I try to avoid using chemicals when possible but I have never heard of most of those methods for killing fire ants. I will definitely find a more benign way to wage war with the ants b/c this episode has scared me half to death. (One of the kids I watch is deathly allergic to fire ants so this is why I've resorted to chemical warfare.) This just freaks me out as we would be heartbroken if anything happened to our sweet little imp. He is just a trouble magnet---and makes me laugh & cry more than I ever dreamed possible. I worry so much over the little things that this incident just seems catastrophic by comparison. He doesn't seem any worse for wear and I hope this continues. He was even irritated that I brought him in early---which is a very normal response for him. Thanks Usersafe!

[Blotch]

pour petrol down each hole and ignite it. I'm sure they couldn't survive a raging fire.

[Scotts1au]

Blotch is right but not quite for the right reason.

I'm not advising anyone to do this but petrol, "gasoline" is one of the best insect killers around and what is best it will almost completely volatolise without leaving significant toxic residues as per organochlorines, or organophosphates. The vapour is extremely toxic to insects and excludes oxygen.

If one were to do this (not that I'm advising) they would pour it down the hole (about 1/2 litre) then seal the hole (and any other exits, with a brick and leave them be and best done at night in cool weather when there is little activity in the hive. I've used it on beehives where all else has failed and worked overnight, it kills everything to the far extremities of the hive.

It certainly works wonders for bee hives, wasps etc.

Scott

[Blotch]

yeah - I was aware of the benefit to using petrol in regards to the fumes etc.. but fire is so much more fun!

And yeah - the best reason is that it vaporises and leaves not toxicity.

Myself and a friend did it to a nest of mice he found in his back yard when i was a youngin. Needless to say - but his back yard stunk of burnt hair, and there were a heap of squeals.

[Leigh]

I agree with Blotch, fight fire with fire, pour over and into the mound,make a ring around the outside with a trail to a safe distance, light,and watch, I'm a pyro so I LOVE THIS METHOD

[aggiegirl]

Don't know if the gasoline and fire method would be something for the kids to watch---as it might spark a pyro interest in them too. I think I will look to usersafe's suggestions for now. Although, if you have ever dealt with fireants, you know how difficult they are to eradicate!
Sweet little Latte' is doing fine---although he is a bit put out with me. I didn't sleep well and kept checking on him. He never showed any signs/symptoms of poisoning. I called my exotic vet and they were awesome! They said he would have shown neurologic signs by now if he had ingested enough of it to cause problems. I am so relieved. Today I'll dig out the remains of all the ant mounds to remove any surface powder. I'll put new soil over the tops. Never again....
Thanks guys. Sunday emergencies with exotics are a nightmare! Ya'll were a lifesaver (mine!)

[Tattoo]

Aggie ... glad to hear your Latte is o.k. Jeez ... bad weekend for you guys.