treating parasites

[sheslikeheroin]

hey, all i have a question.i know panacur (fembendazole) is used for treating animals and herps for internal parasites, i was what is the dose per pound ,or ounce for a bluey. as far as i know none of my herps or either of the blueys have parasites but i'm wanting to do a preventative treatment. Right now a have about 1 litre (1 quart) of panacur suspension because i had to treat my fish tanks for nematode ( nice use of $250) and also treats our horses. so i figured since i have it might aswell treat the blueys. so if any one has a dose that would be appreciated!

[Helikaon]

hey, um yeah i dont have the text i wanted for the dose rate but i do have some wormer here which has a concentration of 50g/L fenbendazole and at a rate of 0.4 ml/kg. the only reason i think this may be different to my text is that it is at this concentration with prazyquantel for cestodes. but yeah just see what anyone else thinks.

and sorry about not knowing what that is in pounds heheh we have the metric system now....

[SailleSkinklover]

I personally would not do a preventative treatment, esp. if your bluey is healthy and eating well.
I would at least get a fecal done before you do anything, anyways.
(I'm a firm believer of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
Some parasites can build resistance to certain drugs, from what I've heard/read on other forums.
I would check with your vet first and foremost.

[Bird_Brain]

I personally would not do a preventative treatment, esp. if your bluey is healthy and eating well.
I would at least get a fecal done before you do anything, anyways.
(I'm a firm believer of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
Some parasites can build resistance to certain drugs, from what I've heard/read on other forums.
I would check with your vet first and foremost.

The problem with that theory is an animal can still have internal parasites and a fecal exam show "negative" results. To my knowledge, I have never heard of internal parasites becoming resistant to deworming medication. Now a virus is a whole different story. I know with dogs/cats that are outdoors, many vets will recommend a monthly deworming routine. Also, many dog/cat heartworm preventions will also help with internal parasites and these medications are given monthly.

Now as you can see, the majority of my knowledge is in regards to dogs/cats, not reptiles so I could be wrong.

[SailleSkinklover]

True about the fecal results, but if it comes up neg, than it usually means that the parasite load is low enough to not worry about.
Check out this thread from Pangea: its a good FYI. ..
http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/sho ... hp?t=16504

There are some people who are claiming that there is some resistance to meds. . .
Its an interesting read anyway, and there are some other good links in that thread.

[sheslikeheroin]

thanks helikaon, and saille i do get what your saying with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" bit but i've had so many herps come into my house recently and a couple from questionable sources. and where i am even the best herp vet is considered mediocre by your standards. the one i use has done some wonderful things for me, and especially compared to the other one in town shes amazing. the other herp vet in town killed my garter snakes when he refused to give them the nescessary treatment to save them. since then i've been very weary of vet's and where i can i try to cross check everything; i'm probably just paranoid but still i'm trying to avoid another episode of losing 3 snakes in a period of a week. oh and i checked out the herpvetconnection site, very good site but my province isn't even listed on it.... makes me sad.

[Helikaon]

if i were you sheslikeheroin i would make worming your reptiles part of your quarantine, if you keep your reps well then future parasite problems should not occur. therefore the ones coming in from questionable sources can be wormed during quarantine, wormed again 2 weeks later and then you should not need to worm again. i have found there are many different views on worming, here we are quite fond of worming every 3 months, but i was speaking to an American vet that i used to work with and she was all for only worming when they were tested to have worms. either way i would probably recommend worming for both cestodes and nematoads about every 6 month period. especially in animals that are fed live foods.

cheers
H.

[Scotts1au]

Benzimdazole (the group of chemicals that most of these derivates come from) have been used for many years and virtually every form of pathogenic bug will have at least some strains with inherrant resistance to it. It is just a fact associated with the repeated use of any given product and the continued genetic residence selected for. A lot of research was done in the last 20 years to try to come up with new forms of chemicals that would beat the development of resistance, spawing the "mectins" about 15 or so years ago. There is now residence to just about every form of these drugs as well. This is not to say that treatment with drugs is not effective, just be aware of the potential impacts of repeated regular use of the same chemicals.

It is unlikely that your bluey will have worms that are strongly resistant to Panacur, however with repeated regular use in an enclosed environment it will become a certainty in time -it is that pesky 0.1% of the population that will not be killed off, that will breed up next time as the seed population.

They key to managing resistance is generally to treat at the time of greatest need, or only for a specific reason ie. to fatten up your bluey prior to brumation, particularly if intending to breed from your female in Spring. If your treatment intervals are long enough populations tend to even out as other genetics come back into the mix so treatment in 12 months time may well be as affective as the first time. However continued selective pressure should be avoided.

Other strategies include rotations, or mixtures of chemicals - basically what most commercially available sheep/cattle mixtures are these days, being pedantic about cleanliness, avoidance of risky feeders such as crickets, water snails.

General good diet, general husbandry should almost negate the real need for any treatment other than where clinical symptoms exist.

In Aus where we brumat our southern species outside, this is a significant stress and obviously some choose to use scheduled treatments as a management option. Horses for courses.

[SailleSkinklover]

Scott, that was beautifully said! Thank you! This is good info, good question and a good thread!
Helikaon, RE: your suggestion. . . that's exactly what I do, I get all new animals a check up and tested for parasites, and treated accordingly.
Hey, Stu, see if www.arav.com helps you on the herp vet front. Its also a good site, though you sound happy with your current vet.