Brumation

[woddle]

Hi I am from New Zealand and I currently have a bluey about 6 months old. In New Zealand, the weather doesn't really seem to become very cold. It is currently Autumn, and my Bluey doesn't seem to become inactive yet, and there was nothing about brumation on a New Zealand bluey caresheet. So I was wondering whether blueys would brumate no matter what, and in New Zealand aswell? Thanks.

[Leigh]

I'm led to believe that the new born/first years don't all brumate, its up to them, someone else with agree, or not,

[Nature's Gift]

That's a really good question. We have Easterns ranging from Victoria to Central Queensland. Winter in Vic. can be say, day to night: 7 - 12. Central Qld. 12 - 27. (wild guess)

Is it an adaption thing or do they stay active all year round in hot temperatures? Plus in QLD the temp. variation during the summer months may only be one or two degrees from night to day, but in the south the temps can drop between 10 and 25!!!!??

They must be extraordinarily adaptable and how does their behaviour differ in these varied climates.????

[mouseinamilkbottle]

I'm not an expert, woddle, but my impression is that if your blueys temperatures drop, it will tend to try to bruminate.

Remember that though many forum members here live in the USA where it snows and gets very cold, BTS come from the Asia pacific region. Your skink (or its ancestors) will have come from Australia or South East Asia, and will be used to bruminating in temperatures which are "cold" in those countries. Australia in general doesn't get as cold as NZ, owing to being closer to the equator.

With that in mind, your skink will probably try to bruminate if you let its temperatures start to drop. I have two skinks only a few months old myself, and I have been told by at least one forum member to not bruminate them in their first year of life. Of course, if they try to despite my keeping their temps even, I don't have much choice, but I was advised not to do it purposely.

[KyleWeiss]

Brumation can be caused by temperature drops, "sensing" the daylight lengths and perhaps even the light wavelengths themselves have changed (due to the atmospheric position of the sun), even the genetics and personality of some skinks.

You can sometimes "force brumate," which can be done by moving the vivarium to a cooler spot and adjusting light timers to turn off sooner, but even then, some animals remain awake all through winter.

Let your bluey decide what he/she wants to do while in the appropriate and standard environment you've provided, unless you have big plans on breeding, whicn brumation kind of "resets" their natural cycles so when they wake up, they're ready for breeding.

There's nothing wrong with letting the room get a little cooler and having the lights turn off a bit sooner and on a bit later than normal. I'd do it no matter what, it reflects a natural state the blueys are genetically adapted for (as close as we can with our setups anyway!)

Good luck.

KW

[Geoff Gates]

stop feeding him and slowly lower his tanks temps and amount of UV lighting over a 3 -4 week period and he will become noticably inactive.

I don't believe that Auckland does not get cool enough for a bluey to enter a torpid state.

[KyleWeiss]

stop feeding him and slowly lower his tanks temps and amount of UV lighting over a 3 -4 week period and he will become noticably inactive.

I don't believe that Auckland does not get cool enough for a bluey to enter a torpid state.

Rollie simply stopped eating when fall hit, just as comparison.

KW

[Leigh]

On brumation,do you think they react to their captive surroundings and would it depend on how many generations have been captive bred, or is it an instinctual reaction . Would newly born wild babies brumate in their natural locale first year round, and don't in captivity coz they've been removed from what would be the expected natural seasons?did that make sense

[Geoff Gates]

On brumation,do you think they react to their captive surroundings and would it depend on how many generations have been captive bred, or is it an instinctual reaction . Would newly born wild babies brumate in their natural locale first year round, and don't in captivity coz they've been removed from what would be the expected natural seasons?did that make sense

Leigh,

Newly born wild blueys must brumate in their 1st year in southern parts of Oz. The weather is far too cold for them to remain active. Some blueys are born as late as April, they have very little time before conditions are not suitable for them. Their 1st meal (the chorion) is so nutrious that even if they cannot obtain any other food it will get them through the winter.

I actually allow 1st year juveniles to brumate indoors then return them to the outdoor pit(s) after the breeding season is over. Usually 10 months after they were born.

Blueys in the more northern parts of Oz just become less active and probably eat much less during the cooler times of the year.

[Leigh]

Thanks Geoff, I'd wondered if we played any part in their cycles through intervention

[KyleWeiss]

I have a question Geoff...

...have you noticed skinks from specific locales or naturalized to say, the southern parts of Oz that if in NZ or even the US may have more tendancy to brumate?

Would an Adelaide northern be less apt to brumate than a Northern on the opposite side of the country?

KW

[Geoff Gates]

I have a question Geoff...

...have you noticed skinks from specific locales or naturalized to say, the southern parts of Oz that if in NZ or even the US may have more tendancy to brumate?

Would an Adelaide northern be less apt to brumate than a Northern on the opposite side of the country?

KW

Yep. They can have more of a tendancy to brumate or less of a tendancy. It all depends on where they originate from and the climate where it is being kept in captivity. Consider all the wild caught indonesian species captive in the cooler parts of the U.S. perhaps one of the reasons they spend such an inordinate amount of time under the substrate is that the micro-climate of the tank is not 100% conducive to them being active.... an enforced torpidity? I'm only theorizing here.

Another example; Alpine blotchies from where Colin lives are extremely difficult to get to brumate in Melbourne (which is further south but at sea-level) as they evolved from an area which has much lower winter temps. Snow there is quite probable where-as it would be an extremely rare event for it to snow in Melb.

I think Colin has stated that he cannot get his blotchies to brumate inside his house. I'm trying to brumate the alpines in the garage this year but it still hasn't got cold enough in there.... I will be happy when it drops a few more degrees.

Your question on Northerns is correct but the places are arse-about
Adelaide does not have naturally occurring Northerns. Adelaide is on the Sth coast of Australia. Northerns come from the top end.

But Easterns occur over a huge range. Easterns in the south would definitely have an inactive period of at least 3 months. Easterns from the north would just slow down a bit.

I hope I have made some sense.

[/b]

[KyleWeiss]

I posted that minutes before I went to work; sorry about the confusion, you knew what I meant though. No sense in calling them northerns if they came from the south, right? I kind if was thinking if a Northern were kept in the south if it'd be less or more apt to brumate.



You answered my question, I can't ask my own properly it seems.

KW

[Zach]

Great stuff, Geoff.

[mouseinamilkbottle]

Just some additional questions.

If you're keeping blueys with no intention of breeding them, should you still bruminate them?

Is there a biological advantage apart from the breeding cycle?

Are bruminated skinks healthier than ones that are up and about all year round?

Should brumination be prevented if possible (by maintaining even temps) in the first year for skinks in captivity, while they're growing?

[Nature's Gift]

Knowing nothing here and having a Pink tongue --- I kept the bedroom door open to my office where my viv is. I have the air conditioner from God in the bedroom and noticed Pinkle having big sleeps in the middle of summer. He's only been on the planet since late December.

Anyway, I started closing the door between the cool cool bedroom and the office and Pinkle started hanging off trees and eating more.

I wasn't experimenting but it was an interesting observation even in a juvenile!.

(I like to sleep in the cool - and it doesn't cool here at night in summer).

[Leigh]

So you reckon he don't like the cold much then, easy fix that one was mate

[Autumn]

Brumation=optional

[Zach]

Just some additional questions.

If you're keeping blueys with no intention of breeding them, should you still bruminate them?

This is arguable. Essentially, Blueys from the north will barely "brumate" at all because it so warm. Blueys in the south will be out cold for a large part of the year during winter. Some believe that they will live longer if brumated because their body slows down instead of being active an entire year. In my opinion, I don't think it's harmful to keep your bluey awake all year, afterall, they're in closed quarters and don't expend much energy compared to if they were not captive.

Is there a biological advantage apart from the breeding cycle?

See above. Some argue that it is indeed their natural cycle, but depending on where the animal is from plays a great roll in exactly how much or how little they actually "sleep".

Are bruminated skinks healthier than ones that are up and about all year round?

Not necessarily. In fact, I'd probably go as far as to just say no. Apart from it being a natural cycle, slowing organ usage (heart beating, digestive system, etc), and stimulating breeding behavior.

Should brumination be prevented if possible (by maintaining even temps) in the first year for skinks in captivity, while they're growing?

While babies do endure harsh winters, and as Geoff said sometimes even have to live off just their placenta sac for the winter, I would not brumate them. They typically don't breed for 2 years, so it's useless in that sense, and things are usually a little more risky with babies. Even though they are tough and independent from day one, I'd still feel better giving them a solid year of heat and food to get them started off right. That's just me though.

[andy]

so its ok to keep them warm through winter? My blotchie is slowing down even though his basking temps are ok, the cool end is maybe getting too cold.?Hes only eaten onece in the last week and hasnt pooped since then! Should i put a heat mat under the tank, if so can i leave it on all nite just low? or can i use a low wat red lite at nite? If i do want him to sleep should i turn off all lites or just heat lamp?And will i have to move him as his tank is in the lounge room where we sometimes have the wood heater going? sorry for all the stupid questions but im confused, . I kept him warm last year cos he was young and had an injury, but now i think hes quite healthy, fat tail, eats well(till recently) very friendly fella. Help anyone!?