Is this the start of MDB??? If so, what am I doing wrong?

[Tony]

Hello all,

I've finally posted on the forums! I've been visiting BTS.net for a long time, and until recently I've never had the need to post anything on here. I simply just read all of the other wonderful posts that contained a ton of useful information. Let me say that I admire you all for posting such helpful, pertinent information on a daily basis. I don't know what I'd have done without reading some of the material posted on here. Thank you guys.

Sadly, my first post isn't a jovial one. It all starts with the acquisition of my first BTS, a northern named Otis. I bought Otis from a local pet shop in Austin, Texas (where I live and go to school), about 4 months ago. He was just a baby, and he looked to be in great health. No mites, no scratches, no skin problems. I'd always wanted a blue-tongue skink, and I had all of the necessary housing and lighting structures (I had a fat-tailed gecko that died a while ago and I still had a 20-gallon tank, lighting, etc.). So, after interacting with the little guy for awhile, I decided that he was the right one for me. I went home and did some basic research to see what I needed, and I purchased more supplies the next day before going over to pick the little guy up (and I've since upgraded to a 40-gallon tank).

And for the first 3 months, everything seemed wonderful...until about a month ago. I noticed a small knob at the start of Otis' tail, but it was literally so minuscule that I thought nothing of it. But very gradually, it's grown somewhat larger. As you might have guessed, my thoughts have now turned to a dire conclusion: Otis may have MDB. Here's a couple of pictures, so you can either tell me I'm wrong, or confirm what I hope isn't the case. Pardon me if they're a bit fuzzy, but this is the best my cheap digital camera could do. If you can't tell, the bump I'm refering to is right behind his hips:





So, what is the verdict? I'd be perfectly willing to acknowledge this and accept the blame for having caused it...if only I knew what was causing it! About 3 or four days after I got Otis, I started visiting this site regularly. I began to prepare meals that I saw on the food charts in the caresheet section. I even dusted the food with a little bit of calcium every other day. Otis' usual daily meal includes either lean, diced chicken or beef, some form of squash, a type of green (collard being my ultimate staple), some papaya, fig, or mango, and some Spot's Stew mixed in just to get him interested. I probably use a ration of something like 30 meat: 50 vegetable and green: 20 fruit, with about a tablespoon of Spot's for good measure. Everything I offer varies by week. I know my fruit offerings vary a little bit from the recommened amount of the caresheet. Is this perhaps my downfall? I also just ordered some silkworms from Mulberry Farms, thinking perhaps the phosphorous in the chicken is binding up the calcium. What else could there be!?

The only other explanation I can think of might be the lighting for Otis' terrarium. I use a 100-watt infrared lightbulb for his basking spot, and an 18-inch, 60-watt UVA/UVB incandescent for his overhead. For now, I leave both light on for 12 hours. His cage is a 36'L, 18'W, 12"H. The whole setup looks like this:

Just the incandescent (first with flash off)



In addition, I take Otis outside quite often and he probably gets about 15-20 minutes of direct sunlight each day. Could it be the UV lighting I have for my terrarium? I can't find any store around here that offers a larger overhead bulb and fixture specifically for reptile basking, but I can order a larger one or get another one of the same size to put on the cage as well.

I'm sorry this post was so long! I really, really wanna fix this problem. Otis is sweetest lizard I have ever had, and if he has MDB--by george, I aim to stop it! Any and all advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

Otis and I thank you very much!




Tony

[DeadEye]

Well ive never seen it , Zack Andrew , Ray would have better knowledge .Something ive read is if there in there viv alot standing up and they havent been outdoors and walked alot the muscles around the spine go to jelly , so standing up at the glass could make the spine get a wek spot . If i were you add a little calcium and let the B.T walk up some muscle strenght in your BTS body. Alot of people forget they walk over rocks and dig and cover vast miles around 5 sqaure miles a male.So been restricted to a few steps , like in us you dont use it ya lose it . Build your self an outdoor and get some of them muscle tight and stronger .

Can be diet to (eg) just crickets


Also iam sorry if it is indeed MBD . No body likes to see there mate in strife . Have a go at anything like this . I have 5 of these some stone these r easier to move around ..Goodluck mate



This is 20 years old we still use it to get bobtails gut ready to set free .

Gets a bit to many flies however these mobile ones are the ticket .

[DeadEye]

Well ive never seen it , Zack Andrew , Ray would have better knowledge .Something ive read is if there in there viv alot standing up and they havent been outdoors and walked alot the muscles around the spine go to jelly , so standing up at the glass could make the spine get a weak spot . If i were you add a little calcium and let the B.T walk up some muscle strenght in your BTS body. Alot of people forget they walk over rocks and dig and cover vast miles around 5 sqaure miles a male.So been restricted to a few steps , like in us you dont use it ya lose it . Build your self an outdoor and get some of them muscle tight and stronger .

Can be diet to (eg) just crickets


Also iam sorry if it is indeed MBD . No body likes to see there mate in strife . Have a go at anything like this . I have 5 of these some stone these r easier to move around ..Goodluck mate



This is 20 years old we still use it to get bobtails gut ready to set free .

Gets a bit to many flies however these mobile ones are the ticket .

[DeadEye]

Well ive never seen it , Zack Andrew , Ray would have better knowledge .Something ive read is if there in there viv alot standing up and they havent been outdoors and walked alot the muscles around the spine go to jelly , so standing up at the glass could make the spine get a weak spot . If i were you add a little calcium and let the B.T walk up some muscle strenght in your BTS body. Alot of people forget they walk over rocks and dig and cover vast miles around 5 sqaure miles a male.So been restricted to a few steps , like in us you dont use it ya lose it . Build your self an outdoor and get some of them muscle tight and stronger .

Can be diet to (eg) just crickets


Also iam sorry if it is indeed MBD . No body likes to see there mate in strife . Have a go at anything like this . I have 5 of these some stone these r easier to move around ..Goodluck mate



This is 20 years old we still use it to get bobtails gut ready to set free .

Gets a bit to many flies however these mobile ones are the ticket .

[DeadEye]

Well ive never seen it , Zack Andrew , Ray would have better knowledge .Something ive read is if there in there viv alot standing up and they havent been outdoors and walked alot the muscles around the spine go to jelly , so standing up at the glass could make the spine get a weak spot . If i were you add a little calcium and let the B.T walk up some muscle strenght in your BTS body. Alot of people forget they walk over rocks and dig and cover vast miles around 5 sqaure miles a male.So been restricted to a few steps , like in us you dont use it ya lose it . Build your self an outdoor and get some of them muscle,s tight and stronger .

Can be diet to (eg) just crickets


Also iam sorry if it is indeed MBD . No body likes to see there mate in strife . Have a go at anything like this . I have 5 of these some stone these r easier to move around ..Goodluck mate



This is 20 years old we still use it to get bobtails gut ready to set free .

Gets a bit to many flies however these mobile ones are the ticket .

[DeadEye]

Hi Tony were iam we never see it iam having alot of trouble posting on the forums .Last try standing up at the glass with weak muscles dont help this , calcium and try to get an outdoor as a male walks 5 miles ,digs climbs there very robust strong skinks ..However in a glass viv , like us they will become weak ..Feeding them just crickets diet has a part to play ..But pm me i have 6 outdoor set ups some can be picked up and moved easy ..The old saying if ya dont use it ya loose it

Sorry to hear ya Mate looks like the start of MBD

[mom22wins]

Hi Tony and welcome! I'm no expert but it sounds to me like you've covered your bases with the diet and lighting. I wonder, has he maybe injured his tail in a fall?

Also, I've heard that there are negative effects from too much calcium but I'm not sure what they are. If you're feeding him calcium rich collards plus calcium powder plus UVB lighting plus taking him outside in the sunshine, I don't know if that would have a negative effect or not. I'm sure the others on the forum will fill you in if that's the case.

Good luck and I hope you find out what it is. I'm thinking you'll probably need x-rays to be sure...

[mom22wins]

Hi Tony and welcome! It sounds like you've covered your bases with diet and lighting but I wonder if the calcium powder is necessary if you're feeding collards and have UVB lighting.

Do you think he may have injured his tail? I'm thinking you'll need to ultimately take him in to have an x-ray to be sure.

[mom22wins]

Hi Tony and welcome! It sounds like you've covered your bases with diet and lighting but I wonder if the calcium powder is necessary if you're feeding collards and have UVB lighting.

Do you think he may have injured his tail? I'm thinking you'll need to ultimately take him in to have an x-ray to be sure.

[mom22wins]

Hi Tony and welcome! It sounds like you've covered your bases with diet and lighting but I wonder if the calcium powder is necessary if you're feeding collards and have UVB lighting.

Do you think he may have injured his tail? I'm thinking you'll need to ultimately take him in to have an x-ray to be sure.

[SailleSkinklover]

I don't know enough to give you any advice other than to find a reputable Herp vet in your area.
Try this link: http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
to find one in your area, this should give you a good starting point, just scroll down and click on your state.
It sounds like poor Otis needs an x-ray at the very least to find out what's going on, it could be an injury that happened somehow as well. Good luck, and please keep us posted!
Saille

[SailleSkinklover]

I don't know enough to give you any advice other than to find a reputable Herp vet in your area.
Try this link: http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
to find one in your area, this should give you a good starting point, just scroll down and click on your state.
It sounds like poor Otis needs an x-ray at the very least to find out what's going on, it could be an injury that happened somehow as well. Good luck, and please keep us posted!
Saille

[SailleSkinklover]

I don't know enough to give you any advice other than to find a reputable Herp vet in your area.
Try this link: http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
to find one in your area, this should give you a good starting point, just scroll down and click on your state.
It sounds like poor Otis needs an x-ray at the very least to find out what's going on, it could be an injury that happened somehow as well. Good luck, and please keep us posted!
Saille

[Tony]

Hey guys!

Thank you all for the responses!

DeadEye, It's funny that you mention the possibility of Otis being a wandering male! My girlfriend and I were starting to suspect that Otis might have actually been a female...but the amount that , uh, "it" tries to walk around in its cage is just astounding. You're almost dead-on when it comes to what Otis likes to do: test the walls of his cage. Not only that, now that I think of it, he used to use the base of his tail as a sitting spot when he would climb the walls and corners. I'd sometimes walk into the room and find him perched on his tail, arms flopping about like a fish out of water. He doesn't really do that much climbing anymore, but it might be residual or just now catching up.

As for the outdoor cage, alas, I live in an apartment. Not sure the landlord would be too happy if I put one up, but you know...I just might ask. The least I can do is take the little guy outside even more, I suppose, and let him walk off a lot of that energy. Austin is more than hot enough for most of the year. Otis may just have to travel to the parks and springs here a little more often. Thanks for the advice, man.

Mom22 and Saille,

Otis has never had a fall, but I think x-rays would be a good idea. Saille, thank you so much for the link! I found a doctor that I'd already heard was a good herp vet. It's really good to hear some encouraging testimonials, too. Quite a nifty site.

Now that I found a good doctor, I'll call Monday and get an appointment. I just hope the visit isn't too expensive.

Thanks again guys,
Tony

[SailleSkinklover]

Hey Tony,
I let Chuffers wander around out in the house a lot too, (supervised of course) and it helps him get his wanderlust under control. Mine's a definite male, as he lays plugs fairly often.
Also, I have seen people post pics on the forum where they have these cool little playpen things that latch together and it gives their skinkers good floorspace to play, but it also prevents them from getting under stuff like bookshelves or behind the fridge.
As for the park, I think its a great idea, just be careful as Skinks can burrow into the grass pretty quickly. I always make absolute sure that Chuff is within arms reach at all times when we're outside exploring somewhere new. I crawl along right next to him, but I'm pretty protective as well.

I'm glad that the link helped. In my experience, Herp vet visits aren't too bad price-wise. I was pleasantly surprised at how cheap mine was for a full check up, but I can't speak for any other vet offices.

Definitely keep us posted on Otis' progress, as this can be a learning experience for everybody!

[Geoff Gates]

Cover the back & sides of his tank with paper.

He is bending his back climbing the walls. This is a common problem when they are young.

[Tony]

Hey guys,

Saille,

I took Otis out today. He seemed overwhelmed at the amount of scenery and wound up just sitting in the sun. I tried prodding him a bit and moving him around to get him to walk, but he would have none of it. Looked really happy, though. Tomorrow morning, it's a call to the vet and another trip outside after class!

Geoff,

Thanks for the advice. It does seem like a logical conclusion. I have seen him do a lot of cage climbing in the past, and he used to climb to the point that he was basically sitting on his tail. I haven't seen him do this recently, but I'll definitely take your advice and put the paper on the sides of his cage. Should I cover all 4 sides? I'd kind of like to leave one side open, but if that isn't a good idea, or you think he'd just try to climb that side, too, then I'll put paper up on all sides.

Thanks a bunch for the help guys, I'll keep you posted on his progress!

Tony

[DeadEye]

Cover the back & sides of his tank with paper.

He is bending his back climbing the walls. This is a common problem when they are young.

Yes i tried to help you yesterday . because he is losing muscle strenght .
Try build an out door .As an adult male walks 5 miles ,digs climbs ..They need to be strong ..Try this
sorry sad to c your mate in a bad way

I have 5 of these 1 made of stone . This is great i just pick it up and move them , they have hollow logs to hide in ect ..And they walk alot around inside so there tough n hardy..Ya gotta stop that standing up at the glass . there back goes out .Or diet (eg) Just fed crickets can be very bad .. Keep up a good diet...cheers



Thats a 20 year old pit but still they walk miles around about Have a look at Edwards so easy to make ..

[aggiegirl]

I live nearby. If you want to research local vets, try googling southtexasreptiles.com too. This local forum has a whole section with first-hand experiences that members have had with herp vets. There are several in the Austin area that are rated there. I've had some experience with herp vets as well. If you'll pm me, I might be able to give you some feedback about the one you've chosen. I agree that radiographs are a good idea but they won't do you any good if the vet can't read them. There was a previous thread that dealt with a skink that climbed its glass enclosure. There were radiographs, photographs, and recommendations. I will search for it and PM you if I find it. Anyone else recall this thread?
If you've had him for only a few months, he probably wasn't getting a good diet or UVB before you bought him. I know of at least one local store that feeds only romaine and crickets with no UVB lighting.
Hopefully, whatever this is, you can halt its course. Feel free to PM me if I can help. Good luck and keep us updated.

[aggiegirl]

I'm definitely not a herp vet or anything but you might review this thread to consider this as a possibility. (I remembered this thread because I thought it looked like MBD. ) If you search "Back Problem-Help" from date 2/8/2007, you can find it. Or, (hint, hint) maybe someone can put a link for you. I would definitely ask the vet about all possibilities. The more you know, the better your questions will be....