Rescue skinks - what is 'dry gangrene?'

[Katrina]

Hi Everyone -

I need some more advice again!! Sorry for the length, there is a lot to explain...

I am looking into rescuing two little skinks, which are actually brother or sisters of our little baby Kira. They were housed with siblings for too long, so apparently a larger sibling was a bully and before the owner realized what was happening they lost a lot of toes and had broken limbs from bites.

This was apparently a couple month ago (they were born November 13th, we picked Kira up mid-December so it was sometimes shortly after that), so the broken limbs are healed, but obviously not healed the same as before.

It seems that the bites caused a bacterial infection (I believe they weren't taken to the vet for a while after, until the infection showed up). The owners sister took the skinks, but is now too busy to care for them properly, so they are currently free to a good home.

The bacterial infection is being treated with 0.05cc's of Baytril taken orally once a day. They eat out of a dish, but the owner said that they do better if fed out of a syringe a couple times a week to ensure that they do get adequete food. I have asked her tons of questions, but while I'm waiting for more info I wanted to ask around here to get a better understanding of this.

I really want to help these little guys, but I don't want to take on something that is hopeless and I don't want to but Kira's health in danger. Obviously we would be careful to wash hands and do everything possible to prevent the infection from spreading to Kira, but susceptible is a young, healthy lizard to picking up an infection? Would we be putting Kira at risk by having them in the same house?

Also, how well do skinks cope with broken limbs? If they break an arm and it heals, can they typically walk alright and live good lives (albeit somewhat disabled)? I know toe loss is common and something that a skink can deal with, but does anyone have experience with broken limbs?

As I get more information from the owner I will add it to here, because I understand that it is extremely hard to tell from the vaugue info I have now, but any opinions or similar experiences and words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Because my boyfriend and I have the time and means to take care of these little guys, and can afford vet visits etc. I would really love to give them a good home and help them heal, but I don't want to take on something that is just making them comfortable for what little time they have left.

What does everyone think? What do I need to find out before I agree to take them? Thanks so much for any and all help!!! I wish I had taken these little guys when we went and picked out Kira.

I have asked for pics, but I'm not sure if I will get them.... I know people will ask!!

[Tattoo]

I would start by getting pictures of the critters to see how they look and post them here. Skinks can live with broken bits and even missing limbs and have a long life. I would want to see what was broken and how they get around. As to the infection ... again I would want to see it before passing judgement and check with the vet in question as to whether it can spread to your skink. Sounds like you could be in for a heap of work but if you have the time and the means then why not? Keep us posted.

[Fatal_S]

If the infection is like an RI, it's contagious. If it's infections from bite wounds, it's not.

Blotch has a skink missing either a leg or hand, it's doing fine.

Other than the infection, it doesn't sound like a hopeless case at all. Since the infection is from the bites, unless you have them playing with Kira when she has open wounds, there shouldn't be any risks to her.

The only thing is the infection, if severe enough, could kill the skinks. Talk to the vet who they saw, and ask about their chances of survival since you are willing to do everything needed (syringe feeding, ointment, vet checks).

Really, if you have the means, I think it would be fine. Do make sure to clean yourself between skinks in case of anything else wrong, and work with the vet to get them up to great health.

[Katrina]

Thanks for the replies.

I just got an email back from the owner, and she said they saw the vet beginning of Feb. They were on medication for 3 weeks, with improvements, and once off it went downhill again a bit, but not as bad as originally. I think it would be best to take them to a local vet (the one we have in Sherwood Park is supposed to be one of the best for herps in Alberta), and get a new diagnosis, as the last vet visit was a long time ago.

The owner said that they are active, not extremely due to the illness and the fact that they are lizards(!), but at least they can walk on the broken limbs alright. Apparently the lack of toes is more of an issue, but it is obviously something that skinks can and do live with.

She also had them in the same room as 3 other skinks and various pets, and no one else got sick, so you are right about the bit infection not being contagious. They are currently housed together in a small aquarium, so hopefully their own homes might help - maybe even with stress.

Tattoo - thanks for the idea about checking with their current vet - I will try to call and hopefully they remember the little guys! At least that way I can give accurate info to the new vet.

I really hope the infection isn't severe enough to kill them. Is it a good sign that they have been living with it for a couple months already? Does that mean that it is not going to kill them? lol - I know, I'm trying to be optomistic!!

I will try to visit them this weekend, just to get a better idea of what I am getting in to - if I do, I will take a camera and post pics. Thanks for all the help everyone - at least this way I will stop worrying about every little thing with Kira - I'll have bigger problems on my hands!

[Katrina]

We have decided that we are definitely getting them - hopefully this weekend if we can get two set-ups complete quick enough!

I read in another thread that for sick skinks you must leave the heat on at all times - what we have been using for Kira's heat lamp is a 100 watt bulb that is colored red - would something like that be alright for the sick ones on all the time with the UVA/UVB on a timer, or would the red light interfere with them sleeping? I could look into undertank heaters for the nighttime - I don't have any experience with them.

Anything else that should be done for sick skinks, other them paper towel for substrate?

Thanks!!

[Helikaon]

the red light will be fine, i would recommend that you soak the lizards three times daily in a luke warm bath to maintain hydration. i would also recommend getting a second check and a complete blood count. im not to sure but i would not think baytril would be the best antibiotic of choice for sceptacaemia if it has come to that. i will have to check my texts for this. depending on what damage is still external some aseptic chemicals may be needed as well. your doing a good thing keep us up to date

[Fatal_S]

Glad you're getting them. Since you've got the means, it's great that you're willing to help these guys ^.^ They'll be wonderful pets once healthy.

The red light shouldn't bother them sleeping. Ceramic Heat Emitters also work well in my experience. Make sure the BTS can't touch the bulbs obviously.

[Katrina]

Good idea for the hydration, Helikaon - because our house is so dry in winter time, I am going to run out and get cigar humidifiers after work today, to help bump it up a bit. It is around 20-25% here - anyone know what it ideal for Indonesian species? The caresheet doesn't specify...

They will be going to the local herp. vet ASAP - I will get them in as soon as I know when we will have them!!

Helikaon - since you seem to know about this, what do you make of the fact that they got the infection months ago, were treated for three weeks with Baytril, and have been of it for a while (and regressed a bit)? Is it a bad sign that the Baytril didn't treat it? Is it a good sign that they have lived so long with the infection? I really hope I can save them!

Thanks for the help!

[Lucifer_Spades]

if an infection doesn't go away it usually means that the cause has nor been eliminated. In Quinn's case the cause is stuck shed and so by getting rid of that the infection is healing up nicely.

[Helikaon]

blues are tough little things, i dont have any experience with exotic bluetongues such as the indos. unfortunately there has been a mistake made somewhere in their treatment. firstly i realize i didn't specify that the soakings are for 15mins three times daily. this is because they will absorb a lot of water through their cloaca hence maintaining hydration. i think you may need to go for a more specific antibiotic as three weeks is a long time to do relatively minamal progress. the fact they are alive is a good sign yes and it also a good sign as septacaemia will kill very quickly so hopefully this is not the case. i think this will be a touch and go sort of situation. you will have to judge their health when you get them and decide the best way to go about this. pictures will be very helpful when you receive them. though i am still a little confused about their state. as you mentioned the legs healed but their was still infection. did the bite wounds completely heal or are they still red and inflamed.

[Katrina]

From what the owner told me, the bite wounds are completely healed - so not sure what is still causing the infection. I don't know for sure, as I have not seen them or pictures yet.

She also mentioned that their eyes get stuck closed, but a warm, damp cloth will wipe it off and then they can open their eyes - so something is causing buildup there. I wish I had better information, but I am just getting this bit by bit each email (we first thought that they were perfectly healthy except one was missing a few toes - lol, apparently not the case).

[Lucifer_Spades]

I'm having red flags go up all over the place here.

It actually sound very similar to the sketchy info I got from Quinn's previous tormentor. I hope you're not getting yourself in to Quinn times 2, believe me one is hard enough to deal with.

[Helikaon]

lol yep just wait till you get them, sounds like there is a few underlying areas to consider. i suggest you simply wait till you pick them up, i would ignore the owners for the time being as they seem to be unreliable with information. take it easy relax and enjoy the non stressing until they come into your hands lol cause then you'll be like me and will be up late at night worrying. hehehe just hit 5:06 am for me i really need to go to bed soon gotta be up at 9am

[Katrina]

Thanks - now I'm really worried!

I don't know that the owner is really all that bad - we got Kira from her, and Kira has been doing great. I think that her little sister decided to take in the little ones, and they were too much too handle, and the situation got way worse....

At least she is trying to get them a good home, and they are free. I'm trying to be optomistic!! And like I said in another thread - the before and after pics of Quinn will give me hope!

I really hope we can help them - I am work and go to school, so I won't be around much during the day - hopefully we have enough time for them.

[Helikaon]

hehehe you'll be fine. it will be very rewarding on your behalf and your new pets will have a special place in your heart. let us know how you go

[Lucifer_Spades]

Thanks - now I'm really worried!

I don't know that the owner is really all that bad - we got Kira from her, and Kira has been doing great. I think that her little sister decided to take in the little ones, and they were too much too handle, and the situation got way worse....

At least she is trying to get them a good home, and they are free.

I really hope we can help them - I am work and go to school, so I won't be around much during the day - hopefully we have enough time for them.

Don't stress too much. It's likely not as bad as Quinn, the sketchy info just makes me edgy.

[Katrina]

Yeah - its frustrating.

But it worked well - we agreed to take two healthy skinks, and then two with some toe damage / 1 broken arm. By time we were committed and already feeling awful for these poor little babies we realized that there is infections / eye problems.

I'm worried, but at least we can afford to take them to the vet and get them into separate homes.

I think I'll have to print out Quinn pics and put them by their new homes to give us all inspiration!

[Lucifer_Spades]

I'll talk to Quinn sometimes and tell him how handsome he is and how he's just gonna get better and better. Little pep talk if you will.

[Blotch]

well now, Seems that someone is telling porky pies!

As stated - don't stress. going by what you are saying you are more than able to help these guys out. Take them in, care for them, get them better and bask in your own greatness!

When do you get them?

[Katrina]

I asked her what the vet diagnosed it as, and she said dry gangrene, or something to that extent. Does anyone have any info on that? Anywhere I can research? Any insight would be great!!

Blotch:
We'll get them hopefully this weekend, if I can get two extra tanks set-up in time. I am hoping to have them Sunday and if I get really lucky I can get into the vet for Monday or Tuesday!

I went baby shopping yesterday afternoon - more nice basking rocks, heat lamp holders, aspen (for Kira now, until the other are well enough), cigar humidifiers (guy thought I was crazy), and all sorts of healthy food etc. I'm still worried, but getting really excited!