Herp Vet says never to feed skinks cat/dog food

[taniya91]

It really gets me that people are arguing with reputable breeders on here. I have a ton of respect for these breeders and would never intentionally say something to insult or disrespect them if they say pedigree is good I'll use pedigree...if it causes obesity in dogs that sucks but the last time I checked bts aren't dogs....at least mine aren't

[Rani-May]

Cant everyone just agree to disagree, this is no different to how people raise their kids differently, you cant tell parents how to do it, they need to work out the best way for them and their kids. same goes for pets. I would never feed my pets something just because someone said its good, id look into it first, as i have. i take everyones opinion into account and then find out which i agree with more and no one should argue with what i do, or anyone else decides on doing. heck, its not like wild blue tongue skinks are gonna line up the perfectly correct nutritious meals and make sure he/she eats them at the perfect time in the perfect size etc. lol
It beats me why everyone is STILL argueing, everyone should do what they think is right for THEIR skink in the end

[Richard.C]

Even with 80 percent water based wetfoods,they contain more protien than dry foods,they use real meats,theres a formula they use to calculate protein,nutrients,fats ect and carbohydrates,amazingly wet food with the high concentration of water is higher in all except carbohydrates,the formula has got to do with the percentage of water each contains

I dont see this thread as an argument,its great getting different views,theres lots of ways to feed blueys successfully,with wet or dry food or not using dogfood at all,you cant rule anything out,unfortunatly theres not alot of longterm studies on bluetongue diets using this or that

Some of my animals have devoured pedigree or chum for close to 20 years with zero issues,even more for over ten years,born to females fed it and raised to adulthood on it and like there mums,also having perfectly healthy babies,its working fine for me so no need to change it,i cant see any negatives of its use

[Emz3]

I think we are all kind of missing the point here...

With the exception of fresh greens, fruits, veggies and insects, anything else we feed our skinks (or other companion animals) end up being processed through a manufacturing plant and would not be found in our pets natural environment. That being said, we stupid humans do the best we can for our beloved pets and we use these manufactured foods because it's easy. ALL pet foods in the US are nutritionally balanced (for dogs and cats). It doesn't matter if you are feeding Ol Roy or Blue Buffalo, they are all nutritionally balanced for the intended DOGS or CATS. (Not necessarily BTS)

In the US our human and animal food standards are lower than many other parts of the world. For example, you all in OZ are light years ahead of us. However, in the US, our pet foods are overseen by AAFCO. All foods manufactured in the US must meet their standards. That being said, pet food companies only need to meet the "survivable" amount of nutrition to meet AAFCO standards. In other words, if a dog can live a relatively average life span and not die, the food is good to go. That fact is sad, but true.

I am exhausted from reading this mind numbing thread, so instead of rehashing what I know, I will just provide you with the links I have used in the past. Most of you that have commented have shreds of truth in your statements, but I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle!

I HAVE done research on dog and cat nutrition (Not BTS!). I was a vet tech for 8 years and now I own my own pet care business and work at our national office. I have had to work closely with veterinary nutritionists and a PHD in animal nutrition. They are not always in agreement believe it or not! We sell our own fancy line of dog and cat food, so I needed to now my *my stars! to be able to sell and stand by my food. You see, there is the "vet side" of thinking on one hand, and WAY on the other side is the "Woo-woo health nut" way of thinking. The truth really lies in the middle. THERE IS NO "ONE SIZE FITS ALL" PET FOOD! There are Fads in the pet food industry and always will be! There is nothing wrong with corn, wheat or soy in dog or cat foods. Unless your dog or cat has an intolerance to these ingredients. (or you have a carnivore and the pet food brand is using corn-gluten as the ONLY protein source.) These ingredients are no more fillers than kelp or blueberries or whatever the hell Wellness, or Natures variety puts in their foods. (They are fine foods by the way.) Not all ingredients are created equal either. For example "Meat" can be cow, chicken, horse, rat, diseased, dead, roadkill, etc. While "Beef" is well, cow as defined by aaffco. Also, there is nothing wrong with MEAL. Meal is the dried rendered version of whatever whatever has been ground up. (e.g. meat meal or chicken meal.) There are so many stupid label rules it will numb your brain. Oh, another crazy rule is the "With Rule" If a food (canned or dry) says "Healthy Performance Blend with Chicken" on the main label, then by AAFCO standards, they only have to have up to 3 percent of that ingredient in their food. No less, no more. Anyway, I'm rambling now , and most of what I know has to do with dogs and cats and nothing to do with BTS. Please do your own homework and decide for yourselves!

The bottom line is read the labels. Know what percentage of protein, fiber, fat, etc. your dog, cat or skink needs to thrive. DO listen to your vets, they know more then we give them credit for, but often nutrition is a category that is lacking. Listen to the seasoned members on this forum, they obviously know what they are talking about. However, just like the care sheet says Having, kept skinks for ____ amount of years doesn't always equate to experience. Once you have information from several sources, put it into play and see how your pets do.

Fatal_S has posted the best link thus far, but there is so much more you need to know:
http://www.aafco.org/
http://www.petfood.aafco.org/Ingredient ... tFood.aspx
http://www.fas.usda.gov/posthome/useu/petfood.'html
Also google "AACFO ingredient Definitions and AAFCO Label Rules (95% Rule, 25% Rule, 3% Rule)

Okay, please don't torch me for anything I've said! I really like it here and would like to stay!!!

[Alioop]

Great information Em! We would never torch anyone who has obviously done their research, makes polite & educated statements, and can provide such excellent references. Also, we really actually aren't in the process of "torching" anybody, we appreciate all of our members and their contributions, but it should be noted that debating and disagreeing are NOT the same as torching.

I found your post especially interesting, because I've been doing more and more research into dog food recently (Brad- Reptileking, would like this post too). I could pick your brain all day about this stuff... but that would be thread-jacking! Maybe I make a food thread in the OT forum so we can discuss it further?

[Bird_Brain]

You are correct Alie! I already sent a pm to her so I didn't make the thread off topic lol

[ManahShepard]

I am just going to put out my opinion on this and what I experienced with my herp vet.

Its a little strange your vet would suggest that. My vet often times will suggest I feed my beardie and skink cat food to put some weight on them (Taiga, especially) and sometimes dog food.

Every vet is different, I assume, like doctors you'll probably have to go to different ones and make a decision on who seems right. Its a pain in the butt, really. As for calcium, etc, my vet had told me he doesn't really like commercial foods like bearded dragon pellets, etc. To me, he said natural is the way to go along with variety and if you give variety and a healthy diet they won't need the calcium powders, etc. Which makes a lot of sense.

I say probably in the winter months would have to use them if you live in an area that has winter, though. But! Again, I think it comes down to going to different vets for different opinions. Never know, aye?

Edit: And I know people have this weird thing about arguing with reputable breeders. But just because they breed the skinks (or any other reptile) doesn't necessarily mean they're right, it just means their methods work (and it doesn't mean that method is correct). Sorry if it sounds like I'm throwing you guys under the bus, but having the mentality of not thinking for yourself and just going with what someone says because they are experienced is a breeding ground for ignorance.

Just do the research and like the others have said (as I skimmed through the Thread), take the information they provide and then you do the process of elimination for what you think is best based on the answers and the research you have gathered.

I guess you could equate this like writing an essay. XD But yeah.

[Richard.C]

Mana,if skinks are breeding,and more to the point having healthy litters,which grow up on same diet and have more babies that grow up and have more babies,for DECADES,with no issues ,no gout,no mbd,even indoors with no uv lighting ,isnt that ignorant to ignore,its actual fact that they thrive on dogfood

Ive never seen a breeder ever say dogfoods the only way to feed them,as its not,most breeders show fact that dogfood isnt the canned poison its often made out to be,they show results,thats fact,decades of results

All there saying is its working mighty fine for them and has done for decades,yet people,usually that havnt kept blueys for all that long ignore the FACTS and tell them they are doing it all wrong,yet dont have any longterm facts to go off

You say just flick through threads,and choose what you think sounds good,thats how alot of in experienced people get it all wrong

Reading stuff isnt experience,its far from always correct to,eg not always fact,its actually where alot of the anti dogfood comments come from

All ive ever seen breeders say is that they have used dogfood for years with great results,they have posative results using it,which goes totally against the grain if what the nay sayers are saying,which they arent backing up with any facts

Commonsense to listen to facts over hear say

[Bird_Brain]

I kknow I would want to listen to a vet who has never studied a species specifically rather than a person who deals with the species everyday for 20+ years. I'm sure the vet would know more because all reptile are so much alike.

[El Lobo]

As someone who doesn't feed wet/dry dog or cat food I have taken these pics to show what I have been using for the past few years to feed the Blotchies.

The way I buy it

DSCF2547CR.jpg

The whole piece is 510gms and cut into meal size portions before freezing

DSCF2549CR.jpg

Dice enough to feed 3

DSCF2551CR.jpg

The whole meal before dusting with calcium

DSCF2553CR.jpg

[Kurt]

El Lobo, That plate feeds 3? How often do you feed?

Also, do you have issues with them picking out the veggies? So far both my skinks pick out the veggies the best they can so I have to chop 'em up really finely and mix it with the meat.

PS, I wonder if they sell any kangaroo meat in the US? That'd be fun to try for my northern.

[Rani-May]

I wish mine would eat the veggies if i gave them to them like that. im a softy and mix it up with some yummy food all the time

[El Lobo]

El Lobo, That plate feeds 3? How often do you feed?

Also, do you have issues with them picking out the veggies? So far both my skinks pick out the veggies the best they can so I have to chop 'em up really finely and mix it with the meat.

PS, I wonder if they sell any kangaroo meat in the US? That'd be fun to try for my northern.

They each get a plate, that is only for one. They get fed every 5-7 days. The biggest girl lets me know when she wants food.

Mine are nearly four years old now so they get less meat protein than when they were growing. They readily eat the vegetable content and will on occasion leave some of the meat.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

After asking on a Monitor Forum how they would care for Blue Tongue Skinks Frank Retes said:
"

I would keep them like monitors,(choices, heatum and feedum) in fact, I did keep them like monitors. That control freak stuff is a cop out for not understanding the animal. Bluetongues are exactly like varanids, socially complex. To bad those type keepers are not very smart.

When I have a question about how to keep a reptile, I turn to nature. Not to taking everything thats natural to then away. My opinion is, If you take all that they are away, why keep them in captivity. That animal, with all taken away, is not the animal that interests me. What interests me is WHAT these animals do. NOT a individual in solitary confinement that is fed dogfood and does NOTHING but sit in your hand.

THat method of keeping is solely about human control. Why not go to the next step and only give them water and nutrition with a IV.

I always hear this, we cannot give them everything(natural) so we give them nothing. My suggestion is, give them UP. As in, do not keep them. Cheers

"

[Kurt]

They each get a plate, that is only for one. They get fed every 5-7 days. The biggest girl lets me know when she wants food.

Mine are nearly four years old now so they get less meat protein than when they were growing. They readily eat the vegetable content and will on occasion leave some of the meat.

Thank you El Lobo. That's interesting that they leave the meat sometimes.

I'm always trying new combos of different veggies and different meats to hopefully find some veggies that the skinks won't pick out. So far I've been unsuccessful so chopping it finely is what I've had to resort to. I'm going to try dog food for the first time this week (no offense to the OP, I'm just looking for new things-I've yet to find a staple in the year and half I've been a skink owner). Hopefully the gravy covering the veggies will work?

I'll keep my eyes open for kangaroo meat, but an internet search revealed only an importer that charges $200-300 for 10-12 lbs so unfortunately that isn't an option. I think Portland has a market that sells emu meat, I wonder if that'd be a decent choice to try?

[El Lobo]

I thought roo meat would probably be hard to find and expensive in the US. That piece I bought was 510gms, cost $5 and will last for a few months. I also feed beef sometimes and on the odd occasion will feed cooked chicken breast to mix it up a bit. It is only the past 12-18 months they have taken to eating a greater portion of vegetable but they are now not likely to grow much more.

At this stage I haven't considered emu meat so can't help with it. If you are thinking of trying it get a break down of its nutritional values to help with your decision.

[El Lobo]

After asking on a Monitor Forum how they would care for Blue Tongue Skinks Frank Retes said:
"

I would keep them like monitors,(choices, heatum and feedum) in fact, I did keep them like monitors. That control freak stuff is a cop out for not understanding the animal. Bluetongues are exactly like varanids, socially complex. To bad those type keepers are not very smart.

When I have a question about how to keep a reptile, I turn to nature. Not to taking everything thats natural to then away. My opinion is, If you take all that they are away, why keep them in captivity. That animal, with all taken away, is not the animal that interests me. What interests me is WHAT these animals do. NOT a individual in solitary confinement that is fed dogfood and does NOTHING but sit in your hand.

THat method of keeping is solely about human control. Why not go to the next step and only give them water and nutrition with a IV.

I always hear this, we cannot give them everything(natural) so we give them nothing. My suggestion is, give them UP. As in, do not keep them. Cheers

"

ML, It would be of benefit if the EXACT question asked of this respondent was made available. He is making specific negative comment on the feeding of dog food and their overall keeping. Without knowing why he makes such remarks his response is all but worthless.

The remark "Bluetongues are exactly like varanids, socially complex" needs a deal of explanation.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

The question was,"

Many people use different methods to take care of Blue Tongue Skinks. There is alot of debate on feeding, some people use dogfood, others use various commercial diets,and some people feed snails. While their are also different methods used to house skinks, some people use glass cages with astro turf, others use rubbermaids with cypress mulch, while others also use display cages with nothing in it. For you monitor keepers, how would you care for Tiliqua?

"

[El Lobo]

That helps to explain his answer, but I don't understand why you would seek keeping advice for a BTS from monitor keepers and then reproduce their 'advice' on a BTS forum; unless you are also of the belief that "Bluetongues are exactly like varanids".

Makes about as much sense as me asking on a raptor forum how to keep my parrot.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

That helps to explain his answer, but I don't understand why you would seek keeping advice for a BTS from monitor keepers and then reproduce their 'advice' on a BTS forum; unless you are also of the belief that "Bluetongues are exactly like varanids".

Makes about as much sense as me asking on a raptor forum how to keep my parrot.

Lol parrot on a raptor forum
I find the way they keep monitors interesting. Allowing the animals to have a basking spot that enables them to utilize various basking temps, rather than just one piece of slate at 100 degrees. I also like how they use various soils and dirts that allow the monitors to burrow instead of mulch or something. Cat/dog food also seems like a very artificial diet.. But then again the animals are in captivity so everything's artificial
Since most(if not all) of them have taken care of other sp of lizards, I thought maybe they could intergrade their methods of keeping reptiles to blue tongue skinks.