sad blotch news any ideas

[Richard.C]

hi guys,i went up the back to see if the wild hibernating easterns were out for a bask today,good news is one was and i got a pic,also checked up on my captive blotcheds as a few were out basking .i wrote in a thread a while ago about a large female lowlands blotch that i assumed was gravid,showed all the symptoms of being so including the heavy breathing when the other 3 who had there babies did ect but no bubs,and she did the same thing last year,well anyways looked at her on the hide box lid and noticed a dead newborn sitting neaxt to her,on inspection it looks to have been there for a day or 2 at least,but its pretty late for a female to still b holding bubs,shes now indoors with heat to see if she passes more,i had a quick look around in there ,but couldnt find any babies,weeds have grown a bit so will have a thourough look in the morning as it was 10 mins before i had to leave for work that i noticed the baby,has anyone ever seen this in lowlands blotcheds before,im in melbourne so its way to cold for her to be still holding them outdoors,will see what happens in doors,she has always eaten well and doesnt show any signs of being in stress,though if theres one out basking its generally her,i had her in last winter as i was sure she was gravid then as well,she lost tail condition but stayed fat in the stomach,also shes never had probs having babies at normal times in the past,which is generally from late feb to mid to late april ,but averages first week in march usually
sorry for length of writing,but im confused,lol,any ways ill post some pics

[Richard.C]

ok here are a couple of pics of her and the dead newborn u will notice basking with her today is the small female and another female just in the shot that had there babies already,5 a piece for them,one had hers late,as in late april,where as the one half out of shot had hers in march,any ways here r the pics


i should add she always is rather heavy looking,and bulgy,and shes in top condition,eats and behaves as she should,bar for the babies,lol

[Richard.C]

as u can see the baby is still with yolk sac attached and birth membrane,i should point out to that my large alpine femal had babies late last year as well,6 were born dead,2 alive ans a couple of slugs,but her babies were underdeveloped,as in they looked transparent,and scales wernt fully developed,the 2 alive ones didnt survive either,but that dead baby there looks as it should,skinny but developed,and rather sizable to,bigger than the other lowlands babies from earlier in the season,mind u they do vary in size between females and how many they have,just seems odd to me,so thought id share,ill keep u posted on her outcome

[Leigh]

Thats sad mate, is she very old and would that play a part? Only guessing .

[Richard.C]

well i got her as an adult so assume she is of some age but she doesnt look old or behave like shes to old,shes very acctive,and was pretty active today considering it was like 14 degrees celcious today,not thinking its an age thing,but who knows,just ive had old old ones before and u can see there age,eg:they slow down,get a little less active and generally dont get the attention of the males,or dont accept them,shes fiesty when she needs to be ,doesnt hold back from having a go at over anctious males when they need to be told,lol

[dragonflames81]

thats so sad to see that. They go through all the work and then its almost like its a wasted effort. I had a female crested like that once. She would lay great eggs but they would never hatch and when I would bust them open they where always fully developed but they would never hatch. So she just became a full time pet and not a breeder.

[AneesasMuse]

Is it possible that it's just too cold for the babies and they perish soon after they're born? I realize there's only one here, but maybe she sees it struggling and somehow delays the birth of the others... ??? I dunno. I'm just speculating.

Hopefully, she will have anymore she may be carrying now that she's inside and warmed up. Good Luck!

She is beautiful, btw.

[Zach]

Wow, Richard.....

My first thought was are you sure it's only 2 days old? Is it possible it was born at the normal time and maybe buried partially, and recently one of the adults brought it up? It almost looks petrified.....

[Richard.C]

naah its still soft,not smelly,pic makes it look old though,lol,its still got all the afterbirth skin on,its definatly recent,had a good look around in there for more but couldnt find any,and she hasnt popped anything else out,im at a loss,lol

[Zach]

I'll have to ponder this one....weird.


The only logical thing that comes to mind is that it did indeed give birth, and that perhaps it was just a rare late bloomer....

[Blotch]

looking at the pic it was so thin it wouldn't have lasted the winter anyway. Clearly it hasn't developed properly - normally blotchie babies are fatties. This one seems to have length but No weight at all. It probably popped out at night, and froze to death whilst trying to escape it's sack.

[Geoff Gates]

I think she is in trouble Richard.

She has lost a lot of tail condition and is still very fat anterior to the back legs. So I suspect she still has some unborn embryos inside her.

Is she drinking? and what is she eating? Does her eyes look sunken (about the only way you can tell if she is dehydrated.)

I'm unsure as to what to suggest. A vet visit and find a good one she might need an emergency ceasarian.

Funnily, I lost a female Blotchie to pregnancy problems in Feb and she'd never had an issue with numerous pregnancies and always gave birth between Feb 16th - Mar 4th.

Good Luck.

[Richard.C]

thanks geoff,by the way she is always that build,gravid or not,tail always looks lean compared to her body,she was eating fine until i stopped feeding them,and drinks regularly,she doesnt seem to be in discomfort at all,she did the same thing last season,but never had babies,that i saw,as i brought her in and housed her with the stumpies for a bit,last year she lost tail condition though,this year she is fine as she has eaten her fill regularly,she is still rather active to,considering the coldness,most of my blotcheds have gone down for the winter now,i had to pull a couple of females in though as i wasnt happy with there weight gain after there babies,so will keep them in for the winter,they had a good feed this arvo,and she is quite active,no sign of more bubs yet though,but she seems happy

[Richard.C]

ok ive been pondering my thoughts on this today,whilst i was at work,lol,so if u ate at my restraunt and your dinner was a little odd,sorry but i was seriously pondering,one of the females that did have babies is quite young,her second litter though,well she gave birth at the usual time,but i never found babies,but she went from very fat,gravid looking big time,she is still short so easy to tell when she is gravid,lol,she lost alot of weight,theres a chance she could have just produced slugs,unfertilised ova,which cage mates could have eaten,or else the water dragons may have had a snack,though they havnt eaten them in the past 5 years,some times they do nip at them ,the female water dragons anyway,but they lose interest as the babies r to big,so my thinking is perhaps the big lass wasnt the one who popped the baby out,but rather the young one had that baby stuck in her still,she is well under weight,and never really ate well after losing her weight,the baby looks very long ,but skinny and the yolk sack looks depleted,perhaps she had problems having the baby and it died inside her cause it was over due,sounds more plauseable to me ,and she looks like she may have lost more weight,she has been eating but in small amounts,where as the big girl always is one of the first to the food and last to leave,lol,told u im confused,that big girl confuses the bejesus out of me,ill watch both carefully and let u know what comes of it

[Richard.C]

oh and blotch heres a pic of an alpine baby next to one of the lowlands babies from this season,the lowlands is small and skinny looking,its only a week old in the pic,alpine around 3 weeks

lowlands can be either chubby or skinny,and sometimes both in the same litter,alpines usually little chubbas

[DeadEye]

Yep iam with Geoff all ze way Richard .Wrapp her in a cold Towel to slow her right down , Vets often like to use anesthetic just to take an ultra sound , not neaded just another 80 90 $ With an Icy cold towel she wont move mate, And see whats going on ..It appears that it went full term or perhaps bigger . And died and was absorbed iam reading quickly late born babe,s , Ill see what i can find ive never seen anything in skinks like this . But i have in humans a women in a poor african village appeared at the local Dr,s station, with terrible pain in almost full pregnancy. She stayed a week and to cut a story short.She was sent home, the baby died soon after and as a 60 year old women . A UN Dr seen her distented tummy any way this baby had died 30years ealier , it had turned to a calcium mass and her body absorbed it . Ive got 2 late one,s this year 1 90 grammer in april by it self very hungry .Just on a horse semi rural sandy paddock. After poor Geoffs misfortune last march .I would be asking questions Mate and get her checked.
Goodluck ..(ps) Hard to tell the babie,s size but how is her breathing now ? perplexed

All the best

[Blotch]

granted richard - but surely you can't deny that that baby lowland is fatter than the dead one you found? Even at birth they are fatter than that dead one.

[Richard.C]

yeah true blotch the dead bub is skinny,just meant lowlands can be skinny when born thats all,thats actually the fattest lowlands from the litter as well,lol,yes i can see how skinny the dead baby is,it looks boofy headeded to but head is long,not wide like normal baby,the big girl i assumed its from is fine health wise,no sunken eyes,eating and drinking normally,breathing normally,the small female im thinking may have produced it now is another story,she was extremly distended when gravid and when she produced was extremely skinny,she never regained her full eating capacity after she produced her babies or slugs,cant be sure on either,as never found any signs of either,she stayed levargic after her weight loss and only nibbled here and there,and drank abit,im leaning towards her as she shows symptoms of not being right,the big lass just went through the heavy breathing thing with the other 3 females earlier in the season,a sign that babies arent to far away,but has done that for 2 years on the trot and no bubs,im thinking she is fine health wise,but i have them inside now,3 females,all the rest stay out for winter outdoors,also earlier blotch said maybe it froze to death when it was born,just want to say ,doubt that blotch,u have to understand how cold hardy blotches are,we havnt got cold enough for that yet anyways

[Blotch]

I totally understand how cold hardy they are - was just a thought due to it's size and how developed it looked - I have no doubt a healthy bub would be fine - just thought perhaps due to its condition it could've had an effect.

[Richard.C]

well generally they arent born this time of year so i guess theres always that chance hey,but it looked really thin,like it starved,maybe it was really weak when it was born and died shortly after,and couldnt break free from embroyonic sac,or was to cols and lethargic to do so,but the main thing is its way out of the norm to be having bubs at this time of year in my area,i did see a guy on aps that had a female produce a litter of dead babies as well a few weeks back,he was also from frankston,was a blotchie as well,i dont know,could be alot of reasons,will keep my eye on them and see what pans out